• SONAR
  • Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain (p.3)
2013/08/05 10:28:27
jerrypettit
Vocal Rider. Nectar.  Period.  (Usually).
2013/08/05 10:39:58
musicroom
@Konrad 
 
I agree. I would never want to redo a track twenty times - my love for the song and performance would slip away. 
2013/08/05 11:28:18
Jim Roseberry
 
I'll almost always use Waves SSL Channel (for the EQ and high/low pass filters).
If I want soft/smooth dynamics control, I'll use a LA-2A style compressor.
If I want a more aggressive "clamped down" type of sound, I'll use an 1176 style compressor.
 
If the track needs intonation adjustment, I'll use Melodyne.
If the track needs de-essed, I'll do that manually and only process the offending sibilant sections.
If the track needs noise-reduction (not typically necessary), I'll do that via Samplitude or Audition.
 
For reverb, I'll send to Pheonix Verb
For delay, I'll send to my favorite delay of the month (haven't settled on THE delay)
 
2013/08/05 11:36:54
Jim Roseberry
musicroom
@Konrad 
 
I agree. I would never want to redo a track twenty times - my love for the song and performance would slip away. 




I think there's a sweet-spot where the performer starts "locking in"... from a timing/energy (performance/tightness) perspective.
If you go beyond that point (with 101 punch-ins), the performance starts to change/morph into something different.
In my experience, the track starts going down-hill from that point (less energy, less focus).
 
Singing is a very physical act.  A tired vocalist won't deliver their best performance.
If the section hasn't been nailed in 4-8 passes, it's likely not going to happen on the 16th. 
2013/08/05 13:26:45
konradh
Recording myself is different, but recording other people, I find you can only hit the stop button or ask for a redo a certain number of times, and you have to feel where that point is.  There are some things you can say like, "That was great.  Now that you're warmed up, let's try another for fun," or "Let's keep that and do another for a back-up" or "Oops. Sorry, technical screw-up on my end—my apologies," or "Why don't we keep that one and, if you're up to it, maybe you can play around with a different feel and see if you like it," but at some point you have to let it go.
 
And, by the way, if you hate Meldoyne or AutoTune or V-Vocal, that is totally cool.  Each artist has his/her own light.  I'm just throwing out my thoughts for whatever they may be worth.  All the things we use are just tools.
2013/08/05 15:34:13
caminitic
Wow...thanks for all the insight.  I'll definitely try to streamline my process instead of trying to solve the equivalent of a 100x100 Sudoku puzzle every time I start mixing lead vocals.  You guys are awesome for taking the time to respond with such detail.
 
One more (unrelated) thing...I didn't want to create a new thread from "the guy always asking for help", but would any of you say that a per channel strip effect (i.e. VCC, Waves stuff, Izotope) is a GOOD THING to use?  I know, again, it's subjective...but I've read a lot of nice things about some of those and wonder if it'd make a difference when summing all those little details into a final mix buss, etc.  I'm still trying to learn the "when something doesn't always mean better" philosophy of mixing...
 
Again...I'm not making professional mixes...just trying to make professional-sounding DEMOS for the purpose of somebody in Nashville wanting to cut the song.
 
Thanks again.
2013/08/05 17:07:44
cryophonik
konradh
To each his own, but if anyone cares, I do not agree with that comment about doing the vocal over 20x until it is right.
 
I recut and punch in vocals all the time—no problem getting the best take you can;  but when the feel and phrasing are right, I don't believe in wearing out and discouraging the singer by redoing ad nauseum.
 



Yup, totally agree with this.  It's no fun to work with a disgruntled vocalist.  Although, I have found that most vocalists I work with are more concerned with getting the pitch right than I am, and less concerned with getting the phrasing right then I am.
 
I start with a Shure SM7B, GT66, or AKG 414 XLS > Focusrite ISA Two or SSL Xlogic Alpha Channel w either Drawmer DL241 or RNC on the insert for gentle compression and/or expansion.
 
Melodyne as necessary to fix intonation/timing
 
My typical vocal tracks' FX chains looks something like:
- FabFilter Pro Q (for hi/lo-pass only)
- FabFilter Pro G (if necessary)
- Sonnox Suppressor
- FabFilter Pro C
- FabFilter Pro Q (for surgical EQ)
 
Send to reverb (usually 2C Aether or Valhalla Room) and delay (usually SoundToys EchoBoy) buses.
 
Route all main vocals to a Vocals buss where I usually use either the Waves SSL channel strip or RenChannel.
2013/08/05 22:36:37
konradh
Ha! cyrophonik, that was right on about the tuning and phrasing!
2013/08/06 00:07:54
sethmopod
I think part of my thing on the 20 times bit comes from being classically trained.  I know there's a thing among a lot of pop/rockers (which I am at heart, despite two classical music degrees) that the first take is usually the best take.  While I have had that happen to people I've recorded, it has been extremely rare.  I find that I get much better results from musicians when I actively coach them through their takes.  This is true for singers and instrumentalists, and I've worked with some really good ones. 
 
It helps in this that I am a sought after and successful teacher in my area; I'm used to improving performances without smashing egos.  I've studied with some of the best teachers out there (Larry Hurst recently retired from Indiana University - if I can grow to be half the teacher he was, I will count myself as a crazy success), and one of the great lessons I've learned is that energy in music can and must be planned.  Any less is the sign of a hack. (<-- this is a harsh statement and probably overdone in the spirit of an internet rant)
 
A very common process I find when working with singers is that we take a couple of full passes at the song to get warmed up.  I may make a few general comments at this point, but usually nothing too much.  Then we starting going through the song phrase by phrase examining the articulation and dynamic structure of each one in much greater detail.  I find that most singers have not done this - they're used to giving run-throughs.  Any good music teacher can demonstrate readily that this is ineffective practice and misses a lot of the detail that leads to a great performance - in any style.
 
By the time we work through the song to the end, I usually find that the singer has found a new groove that manipulates the elements of musicality a lot more effectively.  They are usually singing in a slightly different style by the end of the song than they were from the beginning.  At this point, we will usually go back and redo earlier verses and choruses to match the final style.  What results has been, in my experience, always superior to what those first couple of takes were.  With a reasonably good singer this whole process takes about an hour or so.  Bear in mind, this is not an hour of constant singing - voices can't stand up to that.  It includes discussion, analysis and some rehearsal.  There are also a lot of takes built up.  The editing usually isn't bad, though, because the keeper is almost always immediately apparent - they hit that interval that was giving them trouble, they lock in with the groove, the articulations and accents are there to give it energy, etc.
 
I've had it happen where no matter what I've tried it just hasn't clicked.  I had a session recently where I had to send the singer home to practice.  He took it well, though, because I was helping him understand why his takes weren't getting what he wanted.  He came back a couple of weeks later and nailed it.
 
A caveat here on the "do it again until it's right" comment that started all of this.  Just doing it over and over without the coaching to improve it each time is a waste of time and will leave everyone frustrated and defeated.
 
I'm not usually given to internet rants like this, but I guess I needed to get it out.  I'll shut up now.
 
Seth
2013/08/06 08:14:01
Guitarhacker
I normally leave the track bin empty and set up a vocal bus where I use a custom preset of Ozone and Cakewalk Studioverb2. In the track I use melodyne to process corrections and then after it's bounced/applied I remove the ME plugin.
 
My processing on vocals, and most other things is pretty simply and straight forward..... Ozone and reverb.....
 
Ozone is, of course, a very versatile tool. EQ, Compression, limiting, all in one and the ability to use only what you need and want while turning off the modules you don't want.
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