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  • My Impression of Waves Plug-Ins (p.5)
2015/07/01 18:08:22
cclarry
That's the problem... I don't want to pay ANYTHING for updates.
I've already purchased the product.  Want to sell me an upgrade?
Improve the product, not just "make it compatible" with the current
OS.  Granted the first year is Gratis, but after that it's based on the 
retail value of the plugin.

If you have a lot..and only use on 1 machine, it's a $240 cap (for now),
which used to be $100 I believe, but now is $300, but if only on one
machine drops to $240....STILL ...$240 a year?  To keep my plugins
current?  The only ones that REALLY benefit from that are the owners
of Bapu..I mean Mercury, where they get just about every new plugin
for free...but not EVERY plugin, which they should...

I just think it's ludicrous to keep paying year after year for "OS compatibility"
That's just plain "shystering"...direct from Tel Aviv...

I've paid for the product.  Don't keep charging me unless you are UPGRADING
the product to make it BETTER...and OS Comp doesn't make it better...it's to be
expected GRATIS.

The ONE Caveat?  You get a Voucher to use for up to half off a bundle or 25% off a 
plugin, and that expires, and if you don't use it you lose it.

No thanks...I'll pass.  That's why I parted ways with Waves.  To much "overhead"
to keep the plugins.  I have ample that do equally well or better, and don't pay
for them repeatedly...
2015/07/01 19:33:37
smallstonefan
It does suck to have to wup to sell a plugin. I just wuped my Platinum and SSL to sell them. I used the voucher to upgrade Platinum to Horizon. Now when they sell I also have to pay $150 each because they are over some threshold. My wup was $300. That is a lot of scratch.
2015/07/01 19:46:32
ltb
Buying plugins only to sell them a few months later is crazy.
Can't blame Waves for fickle purchasing habits. It's real simple- demo the plugin first & see if you can use it, if not don't buy in the first place.
They work or sound just the same with or without WUP & have for years.
2015/07/01 19:55:09
smallstonefan
Carl was that in response to me? I don't thing it's relevant. Clearly if I had just bought it I would have wup on it. Having to wup for $300 then pay $150 transfer fee seems unreasonable to me.
2015/07/01 20:18:50
cclarry
smallstonefan
Carl was that in response to me? I don't thing it's relevant. Clearly if I had just bought it I would have wup on it. Having to wup for $300 then pay $150 transfer fee seems unreasonable to me.


The best thing to do in this situation, and Waves does allow it, is to sell the account.
The New customer just takes over your current account and there are no fees...

Just uninstall everything, send the licenses back to the Cloud and give your account info to the
new owner, who changes the info to his info.  

That way you don't pay the $150 per bundle...but then you can't sell them
separately...
2015/07/01 20:19:06
ltb
No, no-one in particular but I see a trend where people get excited & buy them. Then after a while they're not satisfied or want something else then decide to sell them. Then moan or wonder why they're losing money or can't sell them for more than they want.
The WUP & transfer policies haven't changed ( except for amounts perhaps)
It just seems to be more of a buyers remorse situation than a problem with Waves as a company.
2015/07/01 20:30:27
cclarry
While that may be true in most cases it wasn't in mine.

I love the Waves plugins, they are some of the best in the business...
But my first problem is "Why does my plugin require another "shell" plugin
to function?"

My second one is "Why do I have to pay repeatedly year after year for OS updates?"

My third one is "Why do some of the plugins eat my CPU? (and I have a somewhat powerful 8 core system)

Granted, there are many CPU hungry plugs out there...but add these three up and it becomes 
really a LOT of overhead to use a plugin...so I just said "I'm done" and moved on...

Also there is the "Holy crap I just paid $500 for that and now it's $99" factor....

If I do buy a Waves plugin now, it's to sell it...but I was PROUD of myself for not giving in to the
GAS that was killing me this time around. 
2015/07/02 10:38:36
brconflict
cclarry
smallstonefan
Carl was that in response to me? I don't thing it's relevant. Clearly if I had just bought it I would have wup on it. Having to wup for $300 then pay $150 transfer fee seems unreasonable to me.


The best thing to do in this situation, and Waves does allow it, is to sell the account.
The New customer just takes over your current account and there are no fees...

Just uninstall everything, send the licenses back to the Cloud and give your account info to the
new owner, who changes the info to his info.  

That way you don't pay the $150 per bundle...but then you can't sell them
separately...


Actually not a bad idea. If you wish to liquidate your Waves gear, do this. I think that's brilliant, actually. 
2015/07/02 10:58:08
smallstonefan
Hmmmm, I thought you weren't allowed to do that. This could have saved me a LOT of money. :/ I do have a lot of waves plugins I want to keep though, so I would have had an antler dance to create a second account and transfer those. Would have been worth it though.
2015/07/02 11:21:11
brconflict
I don't want to address any one point in particular with this, because you all have valid points, but I do believe the rabbit hole goes much deeper, albeit not so deep we can't understand it. 
 
Let me make a comparison, for a second. Algorithmix made a few Linear-Phase EQs that each cost $1,300 with free updates for life. I own the Algo Red, which is a really great EQ. Unfortunately, Algorithmix has all but abandoned it, and no more updates. The market didn't support the plug-ins, so they essentially (apparently) abandoned them. Waves offers a strong Linear-Phase EQ for less than half that, and when it goes on sale, it may be as low as $79! I bit. Waves will support it for a long time. The investment and income is there. But you'd think the appalling price of the Algorithmix EQ's, which Bob Katz would swear by as the best EQ plug on the planet, would cover the costs of updates for a long time. 
 
Seriously, nobody wants to pay for some empty thing. WUP has nothing to offer aside from updates and admittedly, excellent support. However, if Waves is investing in new technologies all the time, as they are today, without WUP and people $500 plug-ins they'll go bankrupt or just never advance. There's a business model here. If buyers aren't partaking they'll have sales. 
 
I can't totally discount the Waves business model, because it seems to work.
 
WUP is never required. You only need it IF you upgrade your plugins, or need support, etc. With that said, I also wouldn't discount something Waves does for bundle-owners who pay for WUP. Gold bundle owners received a FREE Vitamin plug-in to their bundle. There's an incentive to buy bundles for this reason. 

Anytime you want something for less, there's revenue lost, and the company has to cover it elsewhere or cut corners. Hence, the very serious debates over whether Wal-Mart stores are good for local economies. People always want cheap, cheap, cheap, and free. But great comes at a price. My local mayor came under fire for letting Wal-mart build a store n my town. His reason was, "People will drive 20 miles to a Wal-Mart store to spend less. That town gets the millions in tax revenue that we simply don't see. Our town will continue going that distance, or we can build a store here and land the millions/year in that tax revenue. We have great local stores that will have to compete, but people really don't want the quality as much as they want to save money." 

I don't like that idea, but it's reality. People simply don't want to pay for what they get, if they can "expect" to get equal quality cheaper elsewhere.

I'm certainly not a fan of WUP, but once you've been in such a hard, competitive business, it will make sense. Waves will still succeed in the market and people will continue buying their plug-ins and WUP for some time.
 
What you're getting in return is years of research with the engineers who admit they use their own signature plug-ins, because it takes them far less work to get an awesome mix than the previous methods using outboard gear. And all that outboard gear, not only isn't cheap, you can't get it in your hands (at all). Even though we don't want to pay for updates, and such with WUP, let's not pretend that these plug-ins and WUP are expensive to do pretty much the same (or more) work. I don't like spending $$$ on WUP, but I can certainly appreciate brankupting cost of buying all that hardware. 
 
To finalize my previous comparison, Let's take for example, a Sonoris Compressor. It does a very fine job of compression of any signal, and you may find it way too easy to use. It's transparent and accurate. It does a GREAT job. Now compare that to the PuigChild compressor or API 2500 from Waves. These are relatively easy to use as well, and cost about the same, but what you get here is many, many hours/days/months or research and superb modeling techniques to get the "sound" of those hardware units. Many of the companies that offer free updates for life don't typically have the funds to engage in such efforts, and are left mostly with their calculations and experience in other areas.  

Again, nobody can argue that free isn't better for the wallet, but is it truly better for the product? 


All software has to be updated. Hardware does, too. How many would argue that a super-fast CPU at $400 cost is a great deal, something that will devalue eventually into nothing of value? I can buy one that gets the job done for half that, but at some point, I will have to buy updated hardware. It's an endless cycle. We don't pay for the support because we pay for the hardware. A new PC or Mac costs quite a bit.


For the WaveShell and CPU hogs, Waves plugins offline installer is very large. Having WaveShell allows your DAW to load the many plugins they have faster. If they were all separate, it would take longer to load them all for work. As for CPU, sure some plugins do soak up more. The IR-1 Convolution Reverb, for example is a CPU fiend. It gobbles it up. Many of the modeling plugins do, too as do the Signature lines.
 
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