well there's that and the other way of counting 6/8 time at faster tempos where each beat is defined as a dotted half note, where at 120bpm you would wind up with 360 8th notes in a minute.  this is where it looks like pro tools comes in handy because you can set a value for the click which appears to be applied throughout the project.  

I have a lot of classical training, but after reading this thread, I no longer understand time signatures.

One thing is for sure - reading notation is open to interpretation.
 
I'm in the dotted quarter camp myself for 6/8 or 12/8.   When counting off a typical shuffle, that's always how I've heard it done and it seems to work. 
 

konradh
I have a lot of classical training, but after reading this thread, I no longer understand time signatures.

I feel the same, although I'm a self taught sight reader I can read most classical guitar stuff. But now I get the feeling I've never fully understood what I'm reading. 

Yikes. Went to wikipedia, and the straight answer is.....nothing. It seems that some meters may be used simply as an aid in reading, rather than an actual meter. Sonar does have a cool feature where you subdivide the metronome from the meter, so if you're looking at 6/8 and thinking more like 3/8, you can get a click track where you want it....

It is supposed to be that the upper number is the number of beats per measure, and the lower number is the note value that gets the beat.
 
4/4 is 4 beats per measure, where a quarter note is the beat, giving 4 quarter notes per measure.
 
6/8 is 6 beats per measure, where each beat is one eighth note, giving 6 eighth notes per measure.
 
Etc.
 
BUT, Sonar's Step Sequencer doesn't know a thing about any beat value (bottom number) than a quarter note, and THAT is why tempo has to get doubled if you want to switch between measures of 3/4 or 4/4, and measures of anything with an eighth note base, like 5/8, 6/8, 9/8.
 
Bob Bone
 

robert_e_bone
BUT, Sonar's Step Sequencer doesn't know a thing about any beat value (bottom number) than a quarter note, and THAT is why tempo has to get doubled if you want to switch between measures of 3/4 or 4/4, and measures of anything with an eighth note base, like 5/8, 6/8, 9/8.
 
Bob Bone

hey bob, 
 
it's not just sonar's step sequencer - it's sonar's sequencer overall.  i'm going to go back to my simple test again - 6/8 time at 60 bpm.  open prv and insert 2 eighth notes.  copy and paste special those 59 times (for a total of 60 quarter notes) and go to the end of the clip.  check the time and it's one minute.  even though the meter is 6/8 sonar is counting in quarter note resolution for the beat value. so, if you're wanting to count the 6/8 time as a dotted quarter note, you need to multiply the tempo by 1.5, in this case it would be 90bpm.  
now, clear the track and draw in 3 eighth notes and copy and paste those 59 times.  go to the end of the clip and you're at 1:00.  
 
my brain hurts...
;)

I understand - It is certainly quite frustrating for me, as I work in eighth-note meter base in LITERALLY every project, for a sizable percentage of sequenced measures - interspersed with 4/4, 5/4, and 7/4.
 
@Cakewalk - Please????
 
Bob Bone
 

tom1
Sharke is saying that if the eighth note is the reference note in 6/8 time (and it should be) and if the BPM is 60, in one minute there should be 60 eighth notes;
 
Sonar's metronome plays 120 eighth notes during this time.
 
I was under the impression this was true in all DAWs

Thanks for clarifying! 
 
But I have a question.
To have the tempo consistent when switching time signatures (in the same piece), wouldn't the BPM (quarter or eighth) have to remain constant?
Otherwise, you'd have to insert half/double time tempo changes each time you change meter.
 
Guess this is open to interpretation as to what is best/correct.   
I've honestly never given the metronome a second thought.
I started with a MMT-8 (hardware sequencer)... and moved to Cakewalk Pro Audio 4.0

swamptooth
well there's that and the other way of counting 6/8 time at faster tempos where each beat is defined as a dotted half note, where at 120bpm you would wind up with 360 8th notes in a minute.  this is where it looks like pro tools comes in handy because you can set a value for the click which appears to be applied throughout the project.  

Gotcha...
At faster tempo, I'd tend to write those 6/8 measures as 12/8 (so there's two backbeats per measure)
The dotted half note represents 3 eighth note ticks... so a measure of 12/8 could be counted 1, 2, 3, 4
 
If you change the BPM counter of the metronome (instead of leaving constant), wouldn't you have to insert tempo changes any time you changed meter (say from 4/4 to 6/8 and back)?