Mu

qlne
I also don't post often, and find Cakewalk's ominous lack of presence (unless they are selling some third party product or repackaged mouldie oldies) quite telling.

Sorry all, I went off topic somewhat. Loving your 'mouldy' oldies qlne. The Oxford Eglish definition (and spelling) are as follows. adjective (mouldier, mouldiest; US moldier, moldiest)

• covered with a fungal growth which causes decay, due to age or damp conditions:mouldy bread
• informal tediously old-fashioned:mouldy conventions chiefly British dull or depressing:evenings filled with mouldy old shows

Even the habitually secretive Apple corporation has recently broken the absurd taboo surrounding communication with its user base, by previewing the impending Mac Pro (Pedal Bin Pro as I like to call it). I would suggest that this is so that the market can adjust to its
new look and form factor and also plan, nay fantasise regarding its purchase. I also think they have done this in response to the enormous pressure from a very concerned userbase who were on the verge of abandoning Apple and all hope that another version would be released. 
 
Absurdly, I have spent more money on Avid Pro tools in the last 6 months than on Sonar in the last 2 years. Mostly because I am concerned that Cakewalk may fold in the not too distant future at which time I will be forced to adapt to another DAW. So you see. Cakewalk have compelled me to buy Avid.
 
By previewing the new Mac Pro Apple have secured a market and elicited excitement regarding a product that, as yet, does not exist in the public domain. Cakewalk should very seriously consider doing the exact same thing regarding its next DAW product. I think there are a great deal of faithful out there getting very, very, queasy.

creynolds
But we can see the light at the end of this long dark tunnel

True since 1993:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pSxuxAeW1Os
 
...so brilliant, that it was more brilliant than the sun...
 
I find this thread very confusing.

jb101
I fear you misread the situation. -edit- Someone misreads the situation, and defends them, having obviously not witnessed their behaviour over the previous few months. Probably due to too many alchopops, he attacks the wrong people.

I am truly sorry JB I have no intention to offend. As you correctly note I have not been around these forums for many months and have not witnessed the events you reference. I have absolutely no wish to make light of such actions and condemn them in the strongest terms. Please accept my apologies and add my name to the long list of those who detest online bullying in all its forms.  

OP, I can kinda see your point about the Pro Channel. In part, the Pro Channel ends up being a handy tool to watch for clipping between FX. Before, when I had a ton of FX in the FX bin and one ran hot into another, I would have to listen over the moment in the song where the clip occurred to be able to fix it... and that presumes I was good enough to hear it mixed together with all the other stuff. So, the gain staging control on the FX bin is useful (both in and out).
 
It's handy for me as a Clip indicator. I often listen through a tune just watching the tracks expanded showing all the pro channels watching the clip lights. Frankly, I think it would be an improvement to put a green line (as opposed to red clip line) in the Wave Form Previews on busses when a channel or bus that feeds the bus with the preview has a clip caught in the Pro Channel. That would make it an easy fix. Perhaps a new light on the meter of the track or bus with the PC that clipped? -- red for traditional full on clip and yellow for clip in the PC only?
 
After a couple of years with the PC, I find I use the FX Chain insert more than PC FX and I rarely use the PC FX Chain nobs for controlling various parameters on playback. I do like some of the PC FX and it is nice to be able to re-order them all easily. I still use the old FX Bins sometimes, but mostly for the Melda M-AutoAlign plugins which don't impact the track level so I don't need to watch them for clipping.
 
Real-Estate: There are times I want to be able to see more on my screen than I can. This often has to do with width. Since sometimes I am watching for clip lights on the PC (and want to see all the PCs expanded), not being able to see 16 tracks expanded with 3 or 4 busses expanded on the same 23" (58cm) screen is a drawback. And I don't NEED to watch all the PCs going necessarily, but sometimes when I do, I notice something goofy that's causing a problem and I can fix it (because I can see it!).
 
I like that I can control+click the PC Expander in track one to expand or collapse all PCs. That's great!
 
I do an awful lot of mixing from the Track View. The Pro Channel has pulled me into the Console View and I find that this has helped me a good deal. I'm still a newbie in a lot of ways, and being able to see a little more of what I've compiled on the tracks helps me discover how to get the sounds I want.
 
 

creynolds

jb101
I fear you misread the situation. -edit- Someone misreads the situation, and defends them, having obviously not witnessed their behaviour over the previous few months. Probably due to too many alchopops, he attacks the wrong people.

I am truly sorry JB I have no intention to offend. As you correctly note I have not been around these forums for many months and have not witnessed the events you reference. I have absolutely no wish to make light of such actions and condemn them in the strongest terms. Please accept my apologies and add my name to the long list of those who detest online bullying in all its forms.  

No problems. I have no issues with you. You raise some interesting points.

I may not agree with all of them, but then it would be a boring world if we all agreed all the time.

And the pubs would be much quieter, too. ;-)

Creynolds I find your opening comments quite astute and to the point. They possibly sum up where a lot of the user base is at....quite possibly also a lot more who are no longer users alas. However thankfully there are still many loyal users around the place and there are many new ones still popping through although I still find it eye brow lifting at how easy it easy to get the cracked versions and bypass any chance of revenue for the maker... I've seen this first hand recently and wonder how many cracked users are affecting the long term viability of this product. Topic for another thread...
 
I agree 100% with your observations on Sonar and enjoyed your comments on the other options and thank you for the informative perspective. Interesting to hear your thoughts on the Harrison option and interesting also to hear your steering to Avid as it probably really is the only long term option. Were this user to jump off the good ship Sonar albeit with a tearful glance over the shoulder, I am convinced sadly that the expensive PT option is the only realistic choice to never again have to go through the uncertainty we currently are all (well nearly all ) thinking.
 
Did hardware options also influence your Avid direction and lastly how has the cost with regard to 'essential' plug ins compared to the stock offerings of Sonar been? IE, did you need to purchase Avid plugs to get to an equal footing with the 'stock' Sonar Pro release?
 
Look forward to your thoughts.
Cheers.
 
PS: the light switch is arcing and the light bulb doesn't know what state it should be in.

The only thing I have against PT11, is they simply refuse to support VST plug-ins. It's kind of silly, but it's almost like they were warned by some religious cult that if they started to support VSTs, they would be burned at the stake. I think Avid is way too proud of their caged animal.
 
More, I despise a company who "decides" to require special versions of plug-ins that cause happy VST owners to wait longer for improvements and new concepts longer because those companies, such as Waves now have to comply to sell in that market. Maybe AAX is better than VST, but when your DAW doesn't even back-support your own previous standard (RTAS), and your recommendation is to load PT10 you deserve to lose the market. Avid keeps biting the hands that feed them.

Mully
Did hardware options also influence your Avid direction and lastly how has the cost with regard to 'essential' plug ins compared to the stock offerings of Sonar been? IE, did you need to purchase Avid plugs to get to an equal footing with the 'stock' Sonar Pro release?

Hi Mully,
I went for ProTools as I used to have four dubbing suites within my TV Post company, all ProTools. They functioned well for many years and the dubbing community is almost entirely ProTools. I therefore had quite a lot of sight of it and its issues. The fact that it dominates the professional world make the choice an easy one. I am by trade a TV editor and so I have had a long association with Avid.
Up to ProTools 10 I had no issues with my Roland interface at all. ProTools 11 however will not fuction at all with it and Roland have as yet not issued any patches or updates. More cause for concern about Roland. Oddly, it works fine with PT 11 as long as I use ASIO4all.
 
As for plugins. PTools comes with many, very good plugins as standard. I think you could easily say that they are superior to the mixed bag that comes with Sonar. They are more basic being things like 'a compressor' 'a 4 band eq' but always straightforward and with a common interface style. Likewise, with Protools itself. It's simple uncluttered interface is a joy. One Track view and one Console view. Little wasted space and a smooth simple graphics. No prochannel or similar prosumer nonsense. 'New in Ptools 10 is the Avid Channel Strip which is a full Euphonix System 5. Avid Channel Strip processing algorithms are based on the award winning Euphonix System 5 console channel strip effects.' to quote the literature. It is very good indeed.
 
In fact I would shift over to it tomorrow is Sonar wasn't just a lot more advanced in several key areas and the fact that I have a long association with Sonar and considerable affection for it.
Sonar wins for me in these respects: 

• VST Support
• Truly hardware independent (use whatever interface you prefer)
• Faster than Realtime bounce to clips (this is in PT 11 but I cant run it yet)
• Really fast creation and routing to groups (Can't understand how/why Protools is so bad at this!)
• Solo and muting obeys/includes groups. (Protools doesnt 'get' that when you solo a track you want to solo its reverb with it!!)
• Midi instruments and midi in general are far better in Sonar.
• Midi looping clips and audio looping clips. As a bad musician I use this constantly.
• I've used Sonar for several decades.

I could write more but its no my intention to market Protools for them.
 
My dream would be if Sonar could strip itself back to a lean usable system that looks and feels like protools but retains its superior aspects like those above. Ain't gonna happen is it? Ho hum
 
C
 
 

brconflict
The only thing I have against PT11, is they simply refuse to support VST plug-ins. It's kind of silly, but it's almost like they were warned by some religious cult that if they started to support VSTs, they would be burned at the stake. I think Avid is way too proud of their caged animal.
 
More, I despise a company who "decides" to require special versions of plug-ins that cause happy VST owners to wait longer for improvements and new concepts longer because those companies, such as Waves now have to comply to sell in that market. Maybe AAX is better than VST, but when your DAW doesn't even back-support your own previous standard (RTAS), and your recommendation is to load PT10 you deserve to lose the market. Avid keeps biting the hands that feed them.

Yes the lack of VST is odd. I'm sure they would say its because they are pro market and VST is not good enough etc. Arrogant I agree.
The decision to abandon RTAS is a nightmare for so many users. The Pro market will not shift to ProTools 11 until all the plugins they use daily are available as AAX 64 and even then it may be a long time after that before they can justify the cost and the down time. Absurd.
Avid are in a bit of a state like so many companies. I really hope they survive and get bought out by someone who gets them under control.
We live in hope.

Maybe Roland can Buy out Avid. Then we have more silence in DAW street.