For background, I have all the Vienna Special Editions which cover Orchestral, Chamber, and Solo Strings (with winds and percussion and a limited set of articulations for Appassionata strings).  I have Vienna Dimension Strings which so far includes violins and cellos.  Lat year I bought EastWest Hollywood Strings Diamond Edition.
 
I've used Hollywood on some projects recently, and wonder if I am doing something wrong because it is really hard to use.
 
With Vienna, I load a matrix (example: Orchestral Violins) and use keyswitches and controllers to select the articulation.
 
With Hollywood, I have to load each articulation (e.g., sustain, trill, staccato) and assign each to a separate MIDI channel.  This is awkward since I may load staccato, then decide maybe staccatissimo or staccato on bow or ****cato would be better.  I have to load them one at a time and try them.  Similarly for the sustain/legatos, some use velocity and some don't; some use mod wheel for vib and some don't; some use mod wheel for vibrato and volume; etc.
 
Hollywood does a keyswitch patch, but it has a limited number of articulations (basically up bow, down bow, round robin, trill, and tremelo).  Pretty good for some generic things, but it is a really memory hog if all you want for legato is round robins.
 
The product can sound really good but the time required to set it up and the memory and CPU loqd are tough.
 
Am I doing this wrong?
 
Vienna is simple to use, by the way.
 

You are right, it takes a long time to learn HS properly. The trickiest part for me was learning to use the "ni" legato patches, where you use the MOD wheel to control volume and expression. You just need to experiment with them....I have the Gold version, and I never saw the point in spending an extra $500 for extra mic positions. However, IMO, they are the best strings available and you'll never use anything else once you jive with them. I basically use them for big, lush orchestral sections. The legato violas are exquisite once you figure them out! A director asked me once if I had recorded a real orchestra.
The downside is that they are a memory hog; I know composers who load over 64GB for a single template! For me, I have a handful of favourites that I rely on and they take up around 16GB. The other thing is, a SSD is an absolute must for that library. The thing I found with Vienna stuff is that it still sounds "synthy", and that doesn't cut it these days for professional work.
 
Let me know if you have any other questions, I've been using HS and a bunch of other EastWest stuff for years.

Thanks for replying.  Hollywood does sound great, and I agree that the extra mic positions in retrospect were probably not worth the cost.  The close mics sound cool sometimes but I seldom use them.  If I used Hollywood everyday, I am sure I would get to know which patches to pull up without all the painful loading and unloading.
 
I am quite surprised, however, that you think Vienna does not sound good.  In particular, Dimension Strings are incredible—but a completely different sound than Hollywood since the DS concept is small sections with each player recorded individually.  I just completed a pop record with DS violins and they sound great: but they have a small, 1960s, To-Sir-With-Love sound that is cool for the track in question.
 
Basically, when Hollywood is good, it's great.  A writer I produce just sent me a text to say he had tears in his eyes after listening to the orchestration I added to his track using Hollywood.  The strings start with low chords and no vibrato to create a lonely sound, and then they gradually build.
 
To me, Hollywood is lush (including some tuning imperfections that bother me because I am OCD!).  Vienna is more pristine which makes it a bit colder but more accurate sounding.  Hollywood is also too big a sound for some things.  For example, I would score a film with Hollywood but if I were producing the Beatles, I would use Vienna for Eleanor Rigby.
 
I will continue to use both, and if you have any tips you ever want to share, please pass them on.  I will do the same.

Hmmmm...I'll have to give Dimension Strings another try, I didn't give them a fair shot.
 
I agree, HS is wonderful for big, epic orchestral parts, but that's pretty much it (with the exception of the legato patches that are great for anything orchestral). I mainly just use the patches that utilize the MOD wheel to control volume, you can literally breath life and realism into your orchestrations.
 
Do you own Vienna Ensemble Pro 5, and do you use it with Sonar? it comes bundled with "Epic Orchestra". I'll have to take another look, as it's only $300 for the bundle.

Hey, Jeremy.  I have the Vienna Pro Player (paid) and the free version of Vienna Ensemble.  I don't have Vienna Ensemble Pro and am ashamed to admit I don't even know the purpose of Ensemble.  I think it somehow manages various instances of Vienna, but I am not really clear about that.
 
Keeping in mind that while I am classically trained and love symphonic music, my use of orchestra is chiefly as sweetening in rock, folk, and country pop that I write.  One rock group I produce does pretty epic rock opera stuff that I orchestrate for them.  Given that, here are my thoughts on Vienna:
• The matrix system is, for me, much easier to use than Hollywood's model.  I especially appreciate the consistency.  If I switch from orchestral to chamber to solo, etc. there is no confusion about how to get a particular articulation, and, in most cases, I don't even have to edit the keyswitches.  (We are talking about strings, but the same applies to winds.  I can change from Triple Horn to Vienna Horn, or from Oboe D'Amour to French Oboe without even editing the sequence.)
•  Vienna is much easier on memory and CPU, although if you load all the articulations of Dimension Strings in multiple instances, you will naturally see some significant memory use.  (I run in 64-bit with 12 GBs RAM.)
•  Vienna Orchestral Strings sound exactly like an orchestra to me.  I find the chamber strings a little austere and don't use them often, but there is nothing wrong with them.  The main failure I have had with Vienna is getting a string quartet to sound right using the Solo Strings; but that may be my fault as an arranger.
• The tuning anomalies in Hollywood really bother me sometimes because they are very apparent.  It annoys me to hear the same sour note every time I press a key that is critical to the song.  With Dimension Strings, you can keep the parts perfect or select a degree of humanization.  I know people will say that errors are realistic.  My answer is that errors are the reason God put erase and undo buttons on recorders.
• Some people fault VSL for not having 2nd Violins.  I am mixed on that.  I don't find Hollywood's second violins to sound different enough from 1st violins to matter; however, that does avoid the issue of phasing if the parts cross the same note or play a unison line.  The question is whether that is enough of an issue to warrant all the extra memory for loading second violins.  I go back and forth on that issue.  I can cheat with Vienna by using Orchestral Violins for 1st violins and Dimension Strings for 2nd violins.  I have also used chamber strings as 2nd violins.  In a recent record, I used Orchestral Violins for both 1st and 2nd, but then pasted in a single line using Chamber as 2nds when the parts were in unison.
 
Maybe I am lazy, but Hollywood is a lot of work.  I am a songwriter and am usually anxious to get the parts down, not spend hours trying to go through patches.  For this reason, the VSL matrix works better for me.
 
No disrespect to Hollywood, though.  It is a great product that I have put on records and will continue to use.
 
Sorry for the long post but this is the most interesting topic on the forum to me.

Hi Konrad:
I always thought that Violins 1 and Violins 2 should sound the same.
And the only reason they have 2 sections is to avoid phasing when you are only 2 notes of the same note, as when you start out with the same note and then to separate directions after that, as in a typical classical orchestra.
dan
 

konradh
Hey, Jeremy.  I have the Vienna Pro Player (paid) and the free version of Vienna Ensemble.  I don't have Vienna Ensemble Pro and am ashamed to admit I don't even know the purpose of Ensemble.  I think it somehow manages various instances of Vienna, but I am not really clear about that.
 
 

Vienna Ensemble is a great way to set up a slave machine. This way, your main computer uses the CPU power exclusively for the DAW. The slave(s) contain your VI's. This way, VEPro utilizes the slaves processor and RAM for the VI's, leaving your master computer dedicated to the DAW. Brilliant, really. The best part is, you simply connect via an ethernet cable (Gigabit ports) and you can use PC or Mac, and even mix tehm up (ie; Mac master, PC slave). Since streamlining my main PC though, I don't really have the need for a slave. I installed SSD's on my i7 and upgraded the RAM to 32GB...it is rock solid!!
 
 
 

Excellent!  I will soon be buying a new PC, but my current one is pretty powerful (i7, 12GBs) so it would make a good slave.  This could be some fantastic and timely advice.  Thanks!
 
By the way, you wish to head over the VSL forum.  I having a conversation about the implementation (or lack thereof) of trills in Dimension Strings.  Great guys on that forum but I think they got the wrong idea I was complaining about their product, when, in fact, I love Vienna.
 
Peace.

Dimension Strings is excellent. I can't wait until they finish the entire library.
 
What is it about the trill performances that's lacking?
 
Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com - SONAR X2 Power! - http://garrigus.com/?SonarX2Power
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Scott, I love DS.  The trills, though, are frustrating for me.  Instead of prerecorded half and whole step trills as in the other string collections (and Hollywood), VSL sampled a trill and cut it into an individual note and transition, similar to the legato sampling/scripting.  In essence, if you play the trill articulation, you just hear a very short note.  It is up to you to sequence the trill.  1-That is a lot of work, 2-the sample trill sequences they provide don't sound good (to me, anyway) and 3-to use the DS sequencer for trills, you have to have a second matrix loaded and switch to it for the trills.
 
It is fine that they included this and some people may love it and find it works well.  I would just think that with over a million samples, they could have offered a half and whole step trill as an option.  It is WAY too much work now to get what should be a simple sound.
 
This is really odd since they DO include different types of tremolos—including measured tremolos—instead of expecting the user to program them.  I'm not sure why they took a different path with trills.
 
Just my reaction.  It is still a phenomenal product, however.