• SONAR
  • Touch screen versus control surface (p.3)
2013/08/04 16:52:18
gswitz
My touch screen is on a stand that swivels and tilts. Most of the time (when not using touch) it's upright and back on the desk. When I use touch more or I'm practicing my guitar or keyboard where I use touch a lot more, I slip the monitor forward on the desk and tilt it to my liking. Frankly, tired arms are not the problem. :-)
2013/08/04 20:13:35
cparmerlee
To go a slightly different direction, is there anybody who makes a control surface that is basically just a set of motorized faders, pan knobs, and maybe mute/solo buttons?  I am thinking that a smallish real control surface could go well in combination with a larger touch screen.  I do expect riding the faders from the touch screen would be very unsatisfactory.  But I can imagine lots of other operations that would be very convenient from the touch screen.
2013/08/05 00:22:47
sethmopod
I don't really know about all this touch stuff, but I got talked into a Mackie MCU by a more experienced friend of mine a number of years ago.  I couldn't even imagine handling a complicated session or mix without it now.  I still use the mouse and keyboard, but I never use Sonar without the control surface. 
 
Maybe touch will get there someday.  I still recommend a good control surface if you're doing anything that's beyond just basic.
 
Seth
2013/08/05 02:04:20
LpMike75
The Raven MTX http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HHiXqcyu2M
Looks pretty awesome, even for someone like me who hates touch screens.
 
I feel bad for the big studio's who spent 100K on their mixing consoles, they may be replacing them with 5K worth of touch screens someday in the 'not too distant' future.
2013/08/05 09:27:43
cparmerlee
LpMike75
The Raven MTX http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HHiXqcyu2M
Looks pretty awesome, even for someone like me who hates touch screens.
 
I feel bad for the big studio's who spent 100K on their mixing consoles, they may be replacing them with 5K worth of touch screens someday in the 'not too distant' future.


Very interesting, but it looks like a very proprietary system.  I'm thinking most people will avoid locking themselves into a closed system.  Any idea what they are asking for this setup?
2013/08/05 10:06:27
mmorgan
In addition to 'The Raven', Yamaha has a system out (Nuage) that appears quite similar. Not sure about Raven but IIRC Nuage was about $16K.
 
Regards
2013/08/05 10:31:23
konradh
Raven is a very interesting (but expensive!) device and it uses a laser grid instead of the normal capacitance thing.  It definitely has the cool factor going for it.
 
Maybe the future is a touch screen postioned like a console and a second screen in normal monitor position for non-console things (staff, track view, plug-ins, etc.).  That would actually make the most sense: instead of trying to consolidate everything in a monitor, replace the hardware console with a touch device and keep the monitor doing what it does today.  Maybe that is no visionary, but it would make acceptance easier.
 
Being a bit OCD, all the smudges and fingerprints on touch devices bug me; but Apple's most recent generation is a lot more resistant to that stuff so maybe it is just a matter of time.  My iPhone 5 doesn't bother me nearly as much as I expected.
 
One other thing:  ideally, I would want the touch surface that replaces the console to be a generic device so it could easily be replaced or so software could be switched out.  That is my big fear with the Raven:  paying $10-20 thousand and then the device breaks or I don't like the software.
2013/08/05 11:42:21
Jim Roseberry
cparmerlee
mmorgan
I'm not currently using 'touch' as it would require an upgrade to W8



Is that true?  I had not heard that.  The touch screens I have seen have a separate USB line that carries "mouse" information.  I assumed this would work on any modern Windows release.
 
I have W8 on a notebook and can't stand the thing.  I love W7.




If you want to use Multi-touch with X2, you're forced to run Win8.
ie:  You can't grab two (or more) faders in X2 running under Win7.
2013/08/05 12:05:23
Jim Roseberry
konradh
One other thing:  ideally, I would want the touch surface that replaces the console to be a generic device so it could easily be replaced or so software could be switched out.  That is my big fear with the Raven:  paying $10-20 thousand and then the device breaks or I don't like the software.



I don't see proprietary (expensive) multi-touch devices taking off in a big way.
You can currently get a 27" 20-point multi-touch monitor for under $700.  As multi-touch catches on... those prices will come down significantly.
Within a couple of years, I'll bet those prices will be about half. 
At that point, I can see multi-touch being a common tool in many studios.
 
Multi-touch will never be a 1/1 complete replacement for physical knobs/faders... but it's a generic/affordable/flexible option.
Smart phones and tablets (ironically) have paved the way... so the concepts are familiar/comfortable.
I think the challenge is understanding that multi-touch is different from hardware faders/knobs.  IOW, Don't put hardware limitations on a virtual controller.
Play to its strengths... (similar to the old debates about GUI design for VSTi/VST plugins)
 
2013/08/05 13:02:00
mmorgan
One thing that several have commented upon is the lack of tactile feedback with a touch screen. I think that is a valid point but I also recall back (way back, like the 70s) when I first started fooling around in studios. The position of my fingers was not intuitive at first, and it always took awhile to learn the quirks of a different board.
 
And I would add for those that want some type of tactile feedback, it could very well be available in some future implementation. Something along the lines of vibration maybe with different buzz rates for different items (i.e. sliders, rotaries etc.). Just speculating...
 
Lastly, for those who don't like the smuginess factor (I don't either): trust me, your greasy little paw prints are all over you current CS but you'll never get them cleaned off. eheewww
 
In the end it's all good, use what you like and make music.
 
Regards,
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