• SONAR
  • Looking to upgrade home studio vocal mic.
2013/07/22 00:43:05
stratman70
I have a Studio Projects C1-original batch from the late 90's I believe-one of the first 100 made. It been thru the mill.
Can I do this with $1,000 max? I know some will say get a mic pre for that $$$-But I really do believe the mic is not working like it did many years ago. And I cannot afford both-$1,000 limit.
 
 I did look at this only because I can do the 24 months NO interest at Sweetwater -
Focusrite ISA One ($499)  & 
one of these Shure KSM32 ($500) or Shure KSM42/SG ($799)  
 
Thanks in advance-
2013/07/22 01:37:54
AT
The ISA is a very good preamp and works well for digital recording.  The transformer gives it a nice umph but still modern sounding.  The Warm preamp (I don't know if Sweetwater carries it) is much the same, but a more vintage taste. 
 
Shure mics are good - many here and elsewhere like their 32.  My preference here at home is an Oktava 319 modded by Joly.  He was moving last month and had some good deals on Oktavas and other mics he mods.  The 319 mod is outstanding - I've taken it to major studios and it held its own head w/ various tube mics - manley, etc.  The bock fet 195 is another mic that is a great all-arounder for about a grand in us dollars.  Like the Oktava you can find better mics for this or that, but you are dealing with inches, not feet.  The latest entry is the Lautin Atlantis.  Andy Hong at Tap Op loves it.  Not just in the review, but in his engineering work.  I havent' used one but believe him.  It is very flexible w/ different settings.  But both these last two are $1000 or plus, in the case of the Atlantis.
 
Any of the above (combos) ought to set you right.  Any of the above is something you'll keep, even if they strike oil in your backyard.  The shure mics (I believe they both are transformerless) ought to work well w/ either preamp, which is useful to have.  If you want a clean modern sound I'd go for the ISA.  If you like a more vintage tone on your voice, the Warm.  If you could try the mics on your voice you would have a better idea of best, but any of the choices should work.  Esp. considering your mic now is one of the first low cost mics pushing the edge of its lifespan.  Personally, I'd love the Atlantis - even not having heard it. If I could come up w/ money in 6 months to a year for a solid preamp (the Roland's are good enough), that would probably be the best way to go.  I've never regreted spending the money for a really nice piece of hardware.
 
Good hunting.
 
@
2013/07/22 04:28:37
robert_e_bone
I use an AKG C 414 XLS, and also have a Neumann KMS 104 (there is also a 105).
 
They are both fabulous - I use the Neumann KMS 104 more for hand-held vocal applications, when the vocalist just cannot keep their hands to themselves.  It's good at blocking out noise while delivering SUPERB sound.
 
The AKG C 414 XLS is crazy good - runs around $1100 new.
The Neumann KMS 104 is right around $700.
 
Hope that helps, 
 
Bob Bone
 
2013/07/22 14:03:47
Bristol_Jonesey
I've got a Focusrite ISA One and can testify it's performance - it sounds like it should be a lot more expensive.
 
I think pairing that with the KSM32 would be a good match. You'll have a great front end which probably won't need upgrading until such time as you're in a really good sounding room
2013/07/25 13:18:12
grpere1
I love my Shure KSM 44. I have not used a KSM 32 but i believe the only difference is polar patterns and that the ksm 44 is brighter which was designed this way to improve vocal tracking. You can get a ksm 44 on ebay for about 500 dollars. I would suggest getting tube or transformer based mic pre if your purchasing a solid state mic. Solid state mic with solid state pre is too much harshness for me. You may want to look into the golden age pre73 MKII for the mic pre which has input and output transformers. I hear tons of good stuff about this product. I also hear great stuff about the focusrite isa one but that only has one transformer. All depends what sound your looking for. You can also get an AKG C414 XLII or XLS on ebay for about 500 to 600. I have recorded through the XLS before and it is amazing also. It has a wide cardiod pattern which is great for tracking vocalists who cant stand still if their life depended on it.
2013/07/25 16:17:54
brconflict
If you want vintage warmth, I like the Summit Audio 2BA-221, which you can easily and quickly control the warmth. There's also a good number of awesome tube mics on the market for cheap. I compared an Avantone CV-12 to an AKG c12, and I'll say, they were both really strong, with the cv12 being warmer. The real c12 had a slight sweeter upper mid for female vocals, but the Avantone was really good! I've also compared a couple of good Peluso mics with a Telefunken ELA M 251 and a U47.  Don't overlook the underground. Check recordinghacks.com for reviews. 
 
2013/07/25 23:18:57
stratman70
Appreciate all the great feedback. I have purchased the KSM32. Of course, I can always send it back. I am waiting with the mic pre and just want to first compare the SP C1 to the KSM32 thru the pre's on the Layla3G and also the pres on the roland octa capture.
 
2013/07/26 11:48:32
AT
Don't expect a world of difference between interface preamps and a standalone one.  the differences are ... wait for it .... sublte, but real.  The biggest change is in gain, so you can use the mic farther away.  Alternate positions, as well as the preamp handling the louder bits w/o crapping out.  It will make a difference in your miking, and as you learn to use that your sound should improve.  Added to technique, you will get a slightly rounder sound (from the transformer) that I've found helps take some of the edge off of digital recording.  But other than the placebo effect coming from spending big bucks on equipment, don't expect a world of difference.  There is usually "Oh, I can hear the money" period, then when you listen to previously recorded stuff you think "that was pretty good did I need to drop a grand on this equipment?"  No, but the small differences will grow on you and at some point you'll get it as you continue to use your new purchases.
 
Good listening.
 
@
2013/07/26 20:50:25
stratman70
AT
 
Appreciate the feedback. That is good to know-Thanks
The only big difference I am hoping for is with the mic. If I am correct that my C1 has died of old age I expect to hear the difference without a stand alone pre. That's why the mic came first.
But I must say I am a bit discouraged about my selection after reading most of the post here. All talk about different mics than the one I mentioned Oh well
Only time will tell.
2013/07/26 21:44:50
stratman70
I have a\b'd the 2 singing the same 2 songs, (rock then ballad) same exact settings, etc. The main difference is the Shure is crisper,  for lack of a better term-not much, but I can hear it ----- volume is even. I may have been a little too hard on my trusty old C1. (It has the 797Audio logo on the front)
 
I have mentioned here before that when I bought this (`1 of the 1st 100 made) there was an uproar of how the Chinese had copied the U87
 
I searched and found an article of interest for my old circa 2000 mic. : Well I think of interest. Reviews from 2001
 
 
Studio Projects C1
Cardioid Condenser Microphone
The C1 is a fixed-cardioid, large-diaphragm FET condenser mic with a transformerless output circuit.
The capsule is a 34mm K67 derivative from 797 Audio. It has a 26.9mm diaphragm, likely only metallized on the front diaphragm, and is center-terminated.
The C1’s impedance conversion circuit, according to Brent Casey of PMI, is linear.
                        The first version of the mic, which shipped through 2006, differed from the current production version in the following respects:
  • The original C1 had no pad.      Subsequent versions had a one-position pad (-10dB).
  • The original C1 had no      high-pass filter; subsequent versions, even before the redesign, had a      one-position HPF (-6dB@150Hz).
  • MSRP for the original C1 was      $299.99.
  • The XLR jack on the base of the      original C1 was offset to one side.
  • The revised C1 (circa 2007)      uses stronger metal mesh in the headbasket.
  • The shockmount design changed      from a spring-loaded design in the original to a screw-in style in the      current version.
  • The original C1 was cobranded      with the 797 Audio logo.
 
 
*The original C1 was the first Chinese condenser microphone to invite comparisons to the Neumann U-87 — a practice that continues today, e.g. with the Gauge ECM-87.
 
ProRec.com, 2001
Peggi started singing into the 87. Awesome, that classic Neumann sound that is heard on probably 90% of the records ever made. She then moved over to the C1 and sang into that. EXACTLY the same, no difference. We were all amazed.
The Studio Projects microphones have a reputation for using premium electronic components.
 
DigitalProSound, 2001
Ultimately, each of the Neumanns had a signature sound, as did the Studio Projects C1. Not even taking the price of the C1 into consideration, this mic stood up to some rather hefty opponents, and emerged as a contender. For any studio that runs out of mics quickly, or just doesn’t want to bust out the name brand mics for a generic session, it would serve them to have a pair of these around.
PCB photo: Dren MacDonald
The Studio Projects C1 is also known as: C-1.
The mic was released in 2000.

 
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