LOL you guys crack me up. Thanks for that....I needed the laugh. :)
 
Randy: that's perfectly acceptable on all counts. When something works for you, regardless of what it is or how you get there, you use it. I just noticed that those CE's made a difference....it wasn't a better "difference" just A difference that didn't win me over. One of the cool things about the Waves CE's (that I forgot to mention) is they actually have 32 channels and the channels DO sound different from each other. So when you run something through a Waves CE, there is a coloration difference without jumping on the gain as much. That said, that coloration difference is NOT a NEVE or an SSL. Your front end going into Sonar is your front end. You can't send through an M-Audio and sound like an SSL. LOL! It just doesn't work that way so again....more proof of the hype surrounding these plugs.
 
I was teaching a group of 5 students about 2 weeks ago and we got into this whole CE discussion. This particular group I teach are all old tape guys that are making the jump to digital and are learning on Sonar. Tough crowd at first, but now that they are learning the pros and cons, they've joined the dark side. Anyway, while talking about this, one of my students made a mention about the old BBE phase that everyone seemed to be going through with BBE's on everything including guitar amps. He compared it to the use of CE's as well as other hyped plugs that in my mind, really don't make a difference for the better.
 
He reminded me of the phase when people all felt the hardware BBE's were adding excitement to their instruments because of the added high end hype or synthetic sub low boom. In time, they started to wonder why their instruments were sort of disappearing in the mix and noticed their sounds were no longer exciting them. When they turned the BBE off, their real sound came back and they actually welcomed it because it DID sound better, was no longer synthetically eq'd and was more up front and pure in a good way.
 
Sometimes we're so taken aback by what we think we hear at the time, we force ourselves to use something because we either paid for it or it looks cool. In time we decide to do without this thing...and then we notice the differences for the better. I'm not saying this is the case with you or anyone else using these CE's. I'm just saying that you will find out in time whether it was just hype or really making a difference for the better. The more time you put into this field, the more you learn that less is usually more unless something makes an incredible difference for the better.
 
You'll laugh at this...and I hope you do, but I got quoted in an interview last night as "the dude that can hear an ant fart in another room." I was in stitches because though that is of course impossible, I really do have some good ears and hear some weird stuff that some people can't hear even if I show them. I tried to warm up to these CE's. The differences just weren't for the better for ME. That means nothing if others hear differently. I've worked my entire life to get clean mixes. These things to me sort of dirty things up...they sure don't make me feel I'm using a NEVE or an SSL. Engineers smash tube pre's or specialty pre's. It's rare you'll hear someone brag that they smashed the gain on a NEVE or SSL to get drive from it. That in my opinion, other than for special effects, would be ludicrous. If you've never used a real one, you'll see exactly what I mean when/if you do. HUGE difference that isn't even worth comparing....but if the CE works for you and you're happy, you're right where you want to be. :)
 
-Danny 

Danny,
 
I'm with you on the CE stuff.  I just can't get into it.  It seems to put a haze over stuff - not much, but not something I want.  After 10 years of coming to gripes w/ the clarity and high-end of digital and now I'm supposed to muck it up for faux analog?  No thanks.  I'll try to get the saturation etc. coming in through the hardware.
 
@

AT
Danny,
 
I'm with you on the CE stuff.  I just can't get into it.  It seems to put a haze over stuff - not much, but not something I want.  After 10 years of coming to gripes w/ the clarity and high-end of digital and now I'm supposed to muck it up for faux analog?  No thanks.  I'll try to get the saturation etc. coming in through the hardware.
 
@

EXACTLY!!! I think what bothers me the most AT is that I can't understand how people don't hear that and think it's actually making things better? I really tried to love these things because well....ok, I admit it...I'm an image whore. LOL! They look soo cool I just wanted to use them...but the end result just didn't make me gush with excitement. Again, I seriously don't mean to keep bagging on them. If other people love them, that's great. Maybe it's me that has the hearing problem...though I'm really not so sure...but I'd not count that out.
 
-Danny

If you notice I have not said anything about the CE. Not here or anywhere. All I did say is that Mr. Anderton like it. 
 
My view is much as Danny's is. But I am wiling to try it. So far I'm not that impressed. 
 
I particularly like how AT put it. "After 10 years of coming to gripes w/ the clarity and high-end of digital and now I'm supposed to muck it up for faux analog? No thanks."

All analog circuits generate filtering and noise. Even a single piece of wire is a filter. Designers are using simulation software such as ****E (Simulation Program with Integrated Circuit Emphasis) to simulate the actual circuit in these analog boards to build transfer functions that represent the input and output of the analog circuitry. In principle the transfer function represents the board in the digital domain. And do so very accurately if the engineer knows what he/she is doing and spends the required amount of time in analysis and development. IMHO though it is mostly marketing. I do not believe we have gotten comfortable yet with the digital domain. 
 
edit ... s p i c e is a banned word

Have to agree on the Console Emulators, I mean I think I'm supposed to like them but I just don't get them, On the other hand I put a PC4K-S type bus compressor on many of my tracks...I just like the results. Hey, what do I know?
 
Re: The heat. I lived in Saudi Arabia for a few years. Maybe Texas wins but I'm thinking Hofuf in summer could, actually, kill ya. 
 
Regards,

Ya, but how was there salsa....mild or hot?

When I lived in Miami and bicycled everywhere I learned where every shade tree and small piece of woods was located. Here in the Carolina apparently hot salsa is banned as you can't buy it in the stores.

Never go to a yuppie Indian restaurant and not order it hot.  A twenty dollar lesson learned - free for you, today only.
 
Hot climes and hot food go together - makes the other seem a little milder.  except for the carolinas, I guess.  Too muggy.
 
@

There certainly are lots of really experienced guys here that I truly respect, not having much love for the CE's.  The only Console Emulator that I have ever tried is the one that came with X2.  
 
Well, I am no pro.  I sometimes wonder if I even know what I am doing.  I have never worked in real tape or on a real console.  To find a good tone on my amps, I start turning knobs until I think they sound good.  I pretty much do the same thing within Sonar.  After a while, it seems to take less knob turning to get to the sound you hear in your head, so I guess I am making progress.
 
When the Console Emulator came out with X2, I had no expectations other than to say...hey, lets give this a try.  I liked the sound I was getting so I have stuck with it.  I guess someday, I need to do 2 different mixes of the same song, one mixed with and one mixed without.  See if I can pick out which is which.  I just never have gotten around to it because I have like the mixes that I am getting now better.  For all I know, it could just be that I am getting better.