Oh and thanks for tips on creating warmth. They are noted. There is another element to my use of certain plugs like the CE to achieve things. They are what has worked with relative ease. With more knowledge using better methods and tools I tend to shift in those directions or at least keep them in mind.
 
So there's one reason why I torture myself learning all those pesky rules and protocols as much as they grind against my basic nature. I view that type of thing as basically free tools for my kit. Who needs to spend money when you can manipulate what you have to bend to your will, right? Isn't that how albums like Sgt. Peppers and Dark Side were made possible?
 
:-p

rmorter
I agree w/ Beepster's comments above - I'm recording stuff that is more like 70's rock and consequently like the sound that I got from using X2 (with N-type CE on all channels and busses). I've also had the belief in the past that the digital / CD sound compared to vinyl was not necessarily better, but different. You can hear some cool things digitally that you couldn't do on vinyl due to the physical limitations of a needle having to track without jumping out of the groove.
 
But for what I'm recording now, the closer I can sonically get to Bridge of Sighs on vinyl, the happier I am! I wish I had the vision to take the equipment and make it sound innovative and cool, but for me, for now, I'm happy if I can get a recording where when I listen to it I can concentrate more on the music than on the recording technique (or lack of it).
 
And, I'd be REALLY happy to provide my raw tracks to someone to see if it can be made to sound better with different mix or plugin choices! ;) Especially if you can tell me how I can improve! (And I've been doing this a lot of years myself, whether it sounds like it or not)

Danny offers analyses of mixes for reasonable prices. I have not taken advantage of his services yet but many have posted gushing reviews of how he's helped them improve their mixing abilities and really just reading his posts is an education and a half. Great guy and great engineer.
 
Cheers.

Beepster

rmorter
I agree w/ Beepster's comments above - I'm recording stuff that is more like 70's rock and consequently like the sound that I got from using X2 (with N-type CE on all channels and busses). I've also had the belief in the past that the digital / CD sound compared to vinyl was not necessarily better, but different. You can hear some cool things digitally that you couldn't do on vinyl due to the physical limitations of a needle having to track without jumping out of the groove.
 
But for what I'm recording now, the closer I can sonically get to Bridge of Sighs on vinyl, the happier I am! I wish I had the vision to take the equipment and make it sound innovative and cool, but for me, for now, I'm happy if I can get a recording where when I listen to it I can concentrate more on the music than on the recording technique (or lack of it).
 
And, I'd be REALLY happy to provide my raw tracks to someone to see if it can be made to sound better with different mix or plugin choices! ;) Especially if you can tell me how I can improve! (And I've been doing this a lot of years myself, whether it sounds like it or not)

Danny offers analyses of mixes for reasonable prices. I have not taken advantage of his services yet but many have posted gushing reviews of how he's helped them improve their mixing abilities and really just reading his posts is an education and a half. Great guy and great engineer.
 
Cheers.

Thanks for that Beeps. :) One thing you mentioned that stuck out to me...
 
"It just ain't the real deal and really as with all the software based stuff I never expect it to be."
 
Please keep in mind, (and I apologize if I've confused you) I never meant to make it sound like I was comparing them to the real deal. My point was simply, when you plug into/mic into a NEVE or a SSL, you get quality. You don't just get a gain knob that gives you drive. You also don't plug into consoles like those in real life and crank the gain until it distorts to hear a difference. It would sound horrible.
 
Those pre's in those consoles were not designed for that type of use. People use special pre's for that sort of sound. I never read anywhere that anyone bragged that they slammed a NEVE or SSL to the point of drive. That's not to say it hasn't been done, but I can't recollect anything worth mentioning. They use Manley stuff, UA, Drawmer, pre's they have custom built, other gizmo's that give them the right amount of sound and drive/color...but to literally drive a console?
 
Can you see where the marketing has skewered things? If it works for you and others, that's fine....I'm happy for anyone that has found things that work for them to make recording easier and more fun...seriously I am. I just think the name "Console Emulation" is the furthest from the truth and to me they degrade the sound more than they emulate anything that resembles a professional console. Now with the Waves CE's, you literally get channels to choose. Channels 7 and 23 (I think it's 7 and 23...or 9 and 32...something like that) for example, sound way different than any other channel.
 
You don't even have to do much. Just changing the channel number alters the sound showing a little character and color. Neat but still nothing I feel is worth the money. I like that Sonar gave us the CE's included with X2. Cool when you need something like that. I personally think you and others will be surprised when you don't use them if you try a mix without some day. You of course can't just turn them off/on and compare that way, you'd need two different mixes. Anyway....I'll let it rest and say...if a person is having problems with mixing, which is what I hear a lot of on these forums, stuff like this will not make it better in my opinion....for whatever my opinion may be worth to anyone.
 
-Danny

Danny Danzi
...for whatever my opinion may be worth to anyone.
 
-Danny

Your opinion is worth a LOT, Danny. At least to me and as far as I can tell many others as well. I think we have different ideas of how we like our end results to sound sometimes but I always walk away from our convos or just lurking your posts a little smarter. You also don't just say "such and such device/method/plug/DAW/etc SUCKS!" and walk away. You explain what's up and why you feel that way. That makes things much easier to digest whether it's something I'd want to do to my mix or not. As I said... I think knowledge is a far more powerful tool in this racket than any expensive plug or piece of hardware and you drop smart bombs all over this place.
 
It is indeed appreciated. Cheers.

Interested parties in this thread should also go over to Software and read the two Harrison Mixbus threads over there. You owe it to yourself to check them out.
 
I had very similar views to many here until I started using Mixbus. The concept is simple. They have built a special DAW for mixing in and it really does sound good. My opinions on a lot of this emulation stuff has changed a lot since using it.
 
Danny you seriously need to get his right now too because it is still on special at $149 and even at that it is very good value. You should do a project right up to the mix stage in your fave DAW but at the last minute export stems and tracks accordingly. Drag into Mixbus and try a mix there. I am finding that it does also sound very good. You may alter how you do things once you try this as well.
 
It is like taking you mix to a great mixdown facility and mixing your stuff on a Harrison console. And it seems to really sound like it too. I have used a real one for a while and this definitely has a Harrison vibe all over it.
 
It is probably better to continue any Mixbus discussion over on those threads. There is some interesting detail in that thread.
 
But it does go to show there is something (good) in this emulation stuff and Pro Channel is obviously no exception. I am sure it contributes in a very positive way if like all these things you handle it with care. There are built in options but also some interesting external/third party options too.

I had been reading those threads Jeff and I almost pulled the trigger on the Harrison. I went for a slew of Fender Amps from IK instead. It was interesting to follow your perceptions as they changed. That alone made it really hard to pass up at $39. I think they have gone back to normal pricing.

Personally, I'm pretty damned impressed with all the PC modules, including the Console Emulators. They just plain work, and sound good to me. 

Great thread lots of good info you guys have posted, pro and against CE, this is good info from experienced people that is good for people starting out mixing can read and learn from.
Its also good that people have and take the the time to go into detail on this stuff.
Thanks all

I like CE. Because it glues my mixes. I use lots of virtual instruments. CE interestingly makes them sounds like recorded at the same place with same equipment. But i almost never touch the parameters. Just put end of the chain and give a little bit drive like max 0.8dB.

 So No one talked about PC Tube Saturation. I put it end of every chain too. And i'm sure it is one of the most effective tool that gives my mixes "unique dimension". But you shouldn't hear "saturated" sound, it should only "bend" signal just a little bit.  
 
Other Softube saturation module, Saturation Knob can not do same thing for me. I use it only for specific saturation effect. But I use Tube Saturation for "dimension" and to make things sound natural.
 
** Also sorry for my Englis :)

I don't use the big knob tube saturation that often any more.  To me, that effect just adds a little distortion to the track.  About the only time I use it these days is if my bass track is a little too clean and I need to add a little something to the bass.
 
I use the PC LA2A as much as I can get away with.  It is easily the best plug that Cakewalk has created in my opinion.  I don't have versions from other software companies, but I trust Danny's opinion that it absolutely holds its own and may even be better than everything out there.  I sure like what it does on my tracks; and talk about easy to use.