• SONAR
  • No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer! (p.10)
2013/07/21 08:53:55
thebiglongy
A daw really doesn't need a crap load of synth plugins to come with it.
I think half the problem is that the time spent on trying to add in new synths/plugins, is just more time wasted when it could be better spent making sure the program runs smoothly. 
I know people say, "don't insert effects/plugins, switch presets, whilst the transport is running", but for me, I believe a program like sonar should be able to handle this task without glitching up or stalling. Same goes for switching to loop modes and such. 

A DAW should be just a sequencing/recording program with support for vst/dx n so on. Manufacturer's would be better off just making a solid base program and leave the vst business to those like Native and others who have more time to concentrate on their instruments.

As for paying to upgrade....if x2b doesn't come out and they then expect people to pay the upgrade price to squash old bugs and issues, whilst adding things we don't need, then they need to take a serious look at themselves.

If I purchase faulty goods be it  a toaster, TV, Ipad, car or cutlery, we can take them back and ask for a refund....the manfacturer's don't expect you to buy the new model they are bringing out with all the previous bugs fixed. Cakewalk seems to taking the cake and eating it.

The likes of Noel and co who come on the forum to help out are great, I am not dogging them, it's that type of interaction that keeps clients happy and helps to rectify and perhaps bring forward improvements sooner, rather than later.
2013/07/21 09:20:03
SteveStrummerUK
thebiglongy
A daw really doesn't need a crap load of synth plugins to come with it.
I think half the problem is that the time spent on trying to add in new synths/plugins, is just more time wasted when it could be better spent making sure the program runs smoothly. 
I know people say, "don't insert effects/plugins, switch presets, whilst the transport is running", but for me, I believe a program like sonar should be able to handle this task without glitching up or stalling. Same goes for switching to loop modes and such. 

A DAW should be just a sequencing/recording program with support for vst/dx n so on. Manufacturer's would be better off just making a solid base program and leave the vst business to those like Native and others who have more time to concentrate on their instruments.

As for paying to upgrade....if x2b doesn't come out and they then expect people to pay the upgrade price to squash old bugs and issues, whilst adding things we don't need, then they need to take a serious look at themselves.

If I purchase faulty goods be it  a toaster, TV, Ipad, car or cutlery, we can take them back and ask for a refund....the manfacturer's don't expect you to buy the new model they are bringing out with all the previous bugs fixed. Cakewalk seems to taking the cake and eating it.

The likes of Noel and co who come on the forum to help out are great, I am not dogging them, it's that type of interaction that keeps clients happy and helps to rectify and perhaps bring forward improvements sooner, rather than later.




+1 to all of this ^^^^^^^^^
 
I think the 'Jack of all trades' approach often leads to compromise.
 
Maybe they could split production between creating a perfect DAW in one department, and maybe another completely separate department specialising in creating/updating VST's and VSTi's.
 
With 100% attention and no side-line projects to attend to, the former would be in a class of its own as a powerful host sequencer; the latter, with similar 100% dedication could easily compete with other companies that only produce 3rd party plugs. You never know, there might be enough customer uptake for such an approach, they could take on some more staff (or bring back some of the folk they had to let go).
 
 
2013/07/21 10:41:14
icontakt
pathos
Many features maybe but so many that are broken or half baked. 

 
I think you're talking about color options, Take Lanes, staff view, etc. but how about screensets, event list, track templates, MIDI effects, drum map editor, etc. that I cited earlier? Are they half-baked, too? I don't think so. Maybe the definition of "half-baked" differs but to me the humanize option, drum map editor, clip link, grouping, etc. in Studio One need improvements so it's the same as "half-baked." But all I'm trying to say here is just two things:
 
1. The features I cited in my earlier post are indeed missing in S1 so if you're considering S1 as your alternative/second daw and if you think these features are important, you might want to reconsider.
2. Sonar has more features I need.
 
That's all. I like S1, too. It might add some of these missing features soon.
 
:)
2013/07/21 11:29:46
robert_e_bone
I still believe that a fair-sized number of the types of issues that are out there have to do with 32-bit plugins on 64-bit machines, operator error, and trying to get it all to work on older computers, and/or older audio interfaces or other gear.
 
There are indeed some bugs in X2a, even on new computers with decent audio interfaces and Sonar-savvy folks, but show-stoppers seem to pop up more for the situations/folks I described above.
 
I think that Sonar working all the way through X2 (not the 'a' update), on XP, is pretty amazing, considering XP has been unsupported for a while, and due to the nature of the processing required for audio processing.
 
Anyways - I hope the original poster and all others find a combination of software and hardware that works for each to be able to pursue the creation of music, in as stable and stress-free a way as possible.
 
Bob Bone
 
2013/07/21 14:11:49
Guitarmech111
fwiw - all my issues are with Cakewalk workflow and not the plugins. I have all 64bit plugins in a 64bit host. DAW is top notch performance too.
 
2013/07/21 16:25:42
Jeff Evans
I think the moral of the story is to do some solid research if you are thinking about buying any DAW. Some of the stuff for example that was mentioned concerning things that are not in Studio One are correct but then some of it is incorrect too. While that post was pointing out what is wrong with Studio One my post was pointing out what is right with it too and there is still a ton of stuff I have not mentioned either.
 
I used to think that running more than one DAW was a good idea but in a pressure situation it is definitely not. Once you get into another DAW the fact is you probably won't be using your current DAW very much or at all. You don't really need more than one DAW and all of them are capable of satisfying your requirements to produce music at a high standard if required, Studio One included.
 
Having said that though I am right into Harrison Mixbus as well and it works as a perfect partner to your current DAW. It replaces the whole ProChannel thing and adds some sweet EQ and tape saturation in the process and it also sounds bloody excellent too. It basically does the final mixing part of your projcet.
 
The notation thing could be a deal breaker for some I see that but there are even ways around that too if you really wanted to go that route.
 
Get on the websites, watch the videos, talk to people on the right forums and ask questions. Download demos and test things out for yourself. Although be careful with demos because in many cases a lot of the functionality is either reduced or not present. Note what is missing or does not work.
2013/07/21 17:24:15
dappa1
I have to add that I am still on X1 and I am making some good music on it infact the leap between what I did before and now is amazing. X2 can Wait I'm happy with X1.
 
 
2013/07/21 17:58:53
pianodano
For anyone that remembers early versions of Sonar and the old forums- You could come on the forum day or night - back then there was that a list at the bottom that listed all the users that were currently online. After a while, you would learn to know who knew specific issues and could watch to see when that user was here so that you could message them and get the answer that you needed. But there were always 100's, and I mean literally 100's and 100's. Go back as far as you want and you'd find that the users that really loved Sonar, fully intended to stick around through the good and the bad and really only wanted the DAW to reach it's perfected potential and have always  mostly asked for Cakewalk to stop with the wizbang stuff and just make it work and fix issues. Many of us have seen our suggestions implemented over the years. But then there were the fanboys that didn't seem to care what Cakewalk did - it was all good. I have never believed that those people were helping Cakewalk at all. It seemed that every one of them where of closed mind and would not accept anyone that disagreed with any premise or found fault of any sort with Sonar. 
 
Cakewalk has always seemed to go for a larger and larger market share. That's business I suppose. But it ain't rocket science. Gaining larger market share, unless you have a absolute monopoly, always means cheaper. Usually cheapest. It only rarely means more technically specialized or perfected. Way back then they {Cakewalk}seemed to have had a core foundation of highly technical users that could accurately describe faults and management would always be on the boards to  discuss issues, discover limitations and discuss proposed solutions. Sometimes extremely technical stuff. A very few of those old days users are still around but most are gone. I assume that like me, when Cakewalk dumped on us for that final time by abandoning traditional  Sonar and went full steam ahead with the "clean sheet of paper" (to quote Greg Henderschott) into the X series with all of it's  NEW user "features" and UI and workflow changes, they stopped upgrading and stopped coming here too. Maybe just not a good fit anymore. I myself did buy X1, but have no use for it at all. For this studio owner, it is worthless. Too clunky, intimately familiar navigational features gone. It is foreign to me and I have no interest at all in learning Cakewalk's new generation methodology. So I am stuck at forever buggy 8.5.3 - at least until something better comes along.
 
As an aside, this board has devolved into a group of users that seem to squabble over who has a higher knowledge of music theory, people that argue endlessly without moderator oversight, smart alecks and trolls and someone that shows up saying he or she has dumped 18 tracks of something into Sonar that is not in tempo and wants to line up a drum track and needs to get it done today. What ? Most of the delightful users that always made it a joy to read their daily post's seem to be gone.
 
Now moderators globally delete posts by banned users with no explanation or notes, leaving dangling threads with later posts then totally out of context. Yeah, I know it was unintentional but like many things about Sonar, it was a bad call.
 
There is nothing wrong with it but many posts seem to be from new users that must have just got their hands Cakewalk Sonar and apparently have never even used a computer, microphone or installed a driver before. Evidently many get into Sonar with no recording background and with no effort to study the complex "mechanics"  of recording. Must be some sales gimmick that says get Sonar and instantly be a studio. Careful daily reading of the posts here and it is apparent that this board reflects the skill levels of the users. It doesn't look good long term for Cakewalk Sonar in my estimation. Sonar was supposed to be the flagship or top tier.
 
Sonar is complex - that's for sure. But it has had a ton of stuff added on that I know many studios have absolutely no need or use for. The problems Cakewalk now have are self inflicted. As far as I am concerned they told their long established core user base to beat it.
 
We have asked forever to fix it, complete it, whatever you want to call it. But what they have done is cheapen a product that was developed by extremely brilliant people into something that is almost toy like trying to turn it into a DAW that appealed to everyone. Pros want pro stuff that does the job, every time. I suspect that along the way they have lost many of those that really put Sonar to work everyday, stressed it to the max, had it running every plug imaginable and even across networks. Those people were the 80% that really helped provide the valuable technical development feedback. That was the philosophy that Cakewalk was built on.  Some of us literally starting pleading and begging  at version 6. Stop with the add ons in Sonar. Set us up as subscribers. We would pay.
 
I see you guys are still having the same dialog all these years later.
 
2013/07/21 18:01:14
jbow
For those who may know... what about Reaper? It looks like a good start, a good business model. Is it good or does it have a good potential to become good? I am not currently on a track to change but curious minds want to know...
 
Curious... thanks.
 
J
2013/07/21 19:09:43
Teksonik
I purchased a new computer just to run Sonar X2a.........I've been using Reaper almost exclusively ever since. It just fits my workflow better and X2 still doesn't have countdown to playback which I can't seem to live without.  Drag/Drop of midi files works better, no pops and clicks in Reaper audio files and so on......
 
I'm not saying Reaper is better for everyone but it's better for my guitar tracks and getting used far more than Sonar these days.  I'm still trying to find a niche for X2 in my toolbox......most likely for synth based tracks but for my guitar work it just can't compete with Reaper. (key words "for me", "here" ,"in my opinion")
 
Reaper has a fully functional demo and is a tiny 9 meg download...........try it and see how it fits.  Nothing to lose.......
 
Cue the Sonar fanbois flame fest..........
 
 
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