WDI

$200 does seem like a very good price. But one thing that needs mentioning is that it appears that Apples new pricing scheme appears to offer no upgrade price. So it's a flat $200 for everybody. I actually like this. Lower the price across the board but its a flat fee for everyone. So it doesn't look like they will offer upgrade prices in the future. I have no idea if this is true. Just got the info from MacWeekly podcast. But they were speculating.

I always liked how Mesa Boogie did this flat pricing. It is what it is. No games being played like buying airline tickets.

$200 is totally fair, IMHO. For Logic 9, Apple offered 4 years of free updates and fixes - I think there were like 11 of them, the most recent earlier this spring - that's quite a lot of value for the $, isn't it. (Not that it wasn't stable or rock solid by the way, but w/ computers, the slightest thing you update here can have an effect there. So Apple did a terrific job keeping Logic up to date and working through all the changes.)
 
Plus, you can install Logic on as many computers as you own (as long as you're using the same Apple ID on all of them).

Rain
Whatever any one claims on the internet, the proof is in the pudding - the vast majority of the professional recording industry use Mac. One would have to be pretty stubborn to insist that none of those guys know anything about computers and that they just use what they've been told to use. Anyway, having met and talked w/ quite a few of them, I know that's b.s. 

 
It isn't that there's not computer professionals among the studio crowd, nor is it that everyone is forced to use a mac. There's plenty of PC users around. But installed-base gravity has it's pull - it's a tremendous influence that has nothing at all to do with immediate economic, ergonomic, quality, or suitability concerns. People in the industry trend towards mac's because everyone else is, and it's a whole lot easier to share productions and know-how that way. 
 
There is something to be said for standard computer configurations - it can be a time saver. It does have a cost though, nor does it necessarily indicate that the chosen computer is any better (or worse) than another.
 
Numbers, however, can be deceiving. If the number of studio professionals using mac's were an indicator of some measurable quantity of, say, goodness, the sheer number of PC users in the world would have to point that out as questionable logic.
 
 
 
 

JackDied ...you are 110% correct.
I make a lot of bucks with X2a as a main platform ...all my work is private and I"m in charge of all workflow scheduling and deliveries...
IF it were not that case ...I might have second thoughts about relying solely upon my dearly beloved SONAR X2a
 
It is problematic in certain areas and there are 1000's of cases where certain people get certain things "fixed" ...and many simply do not.
You're right in the case that someone who isn't dependent upon production for a living would simply shrug off catastrophe ...have a beer, eat dinner and start over...
 
I'm sure everyone's work is as important to them as anyone else... but yeah...we get through the day and make it work with our choice of tools to finish projects and get paid....

Bottom Line is I like X2a and Sonar going back to 8.0 ...a lot.
 
I've worked with Cakewalk tech support on some hairy problems that involved international teams... one problem was so deep into the core of the programming no one gave my claims much attention ...but then one day... partly due to persistence and partly due to the attentiveness of one person in Boston ...we uncovered a similar case in Germany...(yeah) soon the ball got rolling and some major issues that were resulting in a heck of a lot more crashes back then was addressed and solved. Don't ask me the details ...that was over 2 years ago ...and I ain't that smart!
 
I'm having an issue now with SONAR freezing monetarily after inserting any soft synth ... I've filed reports and monitored responses to my posts here...
once again, slowly, I'm building a case for more research into the situation.
Incidentally ...this occurred AFTER installing X2a ...so "something" was changed...
...and more of us are starting to report our experiences.
 
Every DAW has problems unique unto itself ...in the end operators must be aware of shortcomings, have an understanding of how to work within the capabilities of the software and have their digital duct tape ready to roll when life is dependent upon A/V production.

No one HAS to work with something they just don't like ...and sometimes we turn to the supplier to vent our frustration(s)

I honestly believe that it's a mix of both. Yes, it does make life a lot easier when working with others. But the computer itself also lend itselfbetter to this type of task out of the box. 
 
Quick exemple. Lets say my Mac dies tomorrow. All I need to do is go to the Mac store, buy a new one, log into the App Store, download Logic, hook up my external HD and I'm up and running again - I can pick up right where I left. My DAW, the OS and the hardware are all provided by the same guys. The level of integration is not a negligible advantage, imho.
 
I don't even need to install drivers for my audio interface - the default ones supplied by Apple actually outperform most of the manufacturers' own. And that is exactly the type of little things which make the difference in the end, and one of the reason why many consider Mac to be a better platform - because it moves out of the way and lets you focus on what you want to do - in this case, music -  not how to get the computer to do it (though some people obviously prefer the later and that's ok)..

Integration is certainly not negligible; I can certainly agree. In short, what both you and I described in so many words is vertical integration, i.e. turnkey systems. Unfortunately, that just doesn't make it better, just more *defined* (which has value). You can just as easily, if you like, get a vendor to sell you a turnkey PC-based DAW as well, and they'll stand behind it. But the moment you crack open a computer's case by yourself, mac or PC, you're on your own.
 
The advantage apple has in the turnkey arena has to do with you can buy a specific model from any apple vendor, whether or not that vendor knows the difference between a mouse and usb cable. With a PC DAW specialist, he must personally test and qualify the system against the intended DAW package, since he is personally guaranteeing the system. You can of course, obtain such special services and guarantees for custom configured mac's from some vendors, but it costs too. (It also negates the 'it just works' mantra some use as a selling point.)
 
Now, the rest of what you describe is standard apple-speak, the 'schtick' as I called it earlier.

Rain

WDI

$200 does seem like a very good price. But one thing that needs mentioning is that it appears that Apples new pricing scheme appears to offer no upgrade price. So it's a flat $200 for everybody. I actually like this. Lower the price across the board but its a flat fee for everyone. So it doesn't look like they will offer upgrade prices in the future. I have no idea if this is true. Just got the info from MacWeekly podcast. But they were speculating.

I always liked how Mesa Boogie did this flat pricing. It is what it is. No games being played like buying airline tickets.

$200 is totally fair, IMHO. For Logic 9, Apple offered 4 years of free updates and fixes - I think there were like 11 of them, the most recent earlier this spring - that's quite a lot of value for the $, isn't it. (Not that it wasn't stable or rock solid by the way, but w/ computers, the slightest thing you update here can have an effect there. So Apple did a terrific job keeping Logic up to date and working through all the changes.)
 
Plus, you can install Logic on as many computers as you own (as long as you're using the same Apple ID on all of them).

And if you jump over to Mac you can use your existing PC as a slave running VEPro 5. The best part is you can still continue using your favourite VST's without ever installing them on the Mac. I must admit, Logic Pro X is very tempting...and has solid film scoring features. For example, you can actually export a Quicktime video file, containing your score.

SuperG

WDI
$200 does seem like a very good price. But one thing that needs mentioning is that it appears that Apples new pricing scheme appears to offer no upgrade price. So it's a flat $200 for everybody. I actually like this.

Apple never made its fortunes on software - always the hardware. Their software was always sky-high priced, because they had a smaller market and a captive audience. Now that the middle man is gone, they can cut prices drastically. This helps seed more users into their hardware, and they can easily afford to subsidize things given the 30% idiot tax Apple places on it products produced by others that can only be sold at it's mandatory app market. No need for a huge ROI here - the bridge toll's got ya covered.

 

Hopefully I understand what you said...

Agree, you pay up front to buy the hardware.

But at the same time, take for instance the MacBook Pro Retina. no doubt that it is an expensive laptop. But at the same time, IMO it is a very nicely built machine. It makes all the $500 - $1000 PC laptops look like they cost 1/3rd less, which they do. The screens alone on these look tremendously better. So ya, you do pay for the hardware, but at the same time, it is nice hardware.

I personally like their software also. To me the gestures for getting around on their OS make sense.

So ya, I would agree with you that you pay more for apple just to use there hardware. But at the same time, it's not like they are selling you crap. It's pretty nice.

I'm not trying to sell anyone one Apple. Besides using apple mobile devices the last few years, I've always been a PC guy

But for me, having always built my own PCs, working in IT troubleshooting PC problems, and being the go to guy for family and friends PC problems, there definitely is something to be said for standardizing on hardware. I'm at the point now where I could care less how things work and having to troubleshoot. I don't believe the apple world is perfect. But if its any better, then I'm willing to pay more.

Also, I like the idea of having one support for the whole computer.

SuperG
Integration is certainly not negligible; I can certainly agree. In short, what both you and I described in so many words is vertical integration, i.e. turnkey systems. Unfortunately, that just doesn't make it better, just more *defined* (which has value). You can just as easily, if you like, get a vendor to sell you a turnkey PC-based DAW as well, and they'll stand behind it. But the moment you crack open a computer's case by yourself, mac or PC, you're on your own.
 
The advantage apple has in the turnkey arena has to do with you can buy a specific model from any apple vendor, whether or not that vendor knows the difference between a mouse and usb cable. With a PC DAW specialist, he must personally test and qualify the system against the intended DAW package, since he is personally guaranteeing the system. You can of course, obtain such special services and guarantees for custom configured mac's from some vendors, but it costs too. (It also negates the 'it just works' mantra some use as a selling point.)
 
Now, the rest of what you describe is standard apple-speak, the 'schtick' as I called it earlier.

 
And I say that you calling it Apple speak and schtick is irrelevant - and a nice way to once again imply that Apple users simply don't know what they're talking about. Need I remind you:
 
I use a Mac.
I know computers very well - PC AND Mac alike.
I find Mac simpler to use.
There are many others to tell you just the same.
 
Period. 
 
It's got nothing to do w/ you and your opinion. What you decide to call my (and other people's) experience is all yours. The value of my experience to me? You don't know that. What you decide to imagine is the reason for my preference is all in your head. You don't know me. You don't know the people I'm referring to. Don't you realize at one point that there might be some things that are only assumptions and guesses on your part which hold no value in a discussion? 
 
You can chose to ignore or discredit the above or to label it Apple-speak. Facts are facts, whether you agree w/ them or not, or whatever you decide to call them. The better platform is, in the end, a personal choice. And that's something that's far beyond your authority. Whatever you say or type - I know that my life in the studio is a lot easier since I bought a Mac and that I spend a lot more time being productive and less time thinking about computer-related things.
 
BTW, I also gave the example of the default Core audio driver which you conveniently ignored. It has nothing to do w/ Apple Speak or vertical integration as you call it. My audio interface is made by Focusrite, not Apple. The one before was M-Audio. In both case, just plugging the USB cable and I was done. Rock solid performance and RTL as good as it gets. How's that for a stupid reason to like a Mac?
 
A Mac - any Mac will have you working on your music in a blink. And no it's not just like custom PC. It's actually the exact opposite. It's any Mac. You don't have to hunt down a good specialist and explain what you want to do with the computer.
 
Apple make Final Cut Pro and Logic, one of the most powerful and complete DAW software there is. Mainstage is one the most widely used platform on stage, and it also happen to be made by Apple. A Mac comes w/ Garage Band installed and rock solid audio drivers to start using it on the spot. They even offer free piano lessons for download via GB. All that stuff is only a few clicks away at most.
 
Media creation and management has always been one of Apple's battle horse. One would have to be in denial to try and pretend that it's all hype and that the user experience cannot be regarded as "better" depending on a person's priority.
 
In the face of all this and so much more, Apple schtick all you want...
 
 

WDI

But at the same time, take for instance the MacBook Pro Retina. no doubt that it is an expensive laptop. But at the same time, IMO it is a very nicely built machine. It makes all the $500 - $1000 PC laptops look like they cost 1/3rd less, which they do. The screens alone on these look tremendously better. So ya, you do pay for the hardware, but at the same time, it is nice hardware.

And when it's time to upgrade, you can actually resell the darn thing! When we moved here, I actually had to pay to get rid of my old PCs. For my wife's 4 or 5 years old MacBook (which had a defective power supply), we placed an ad and it was sold the next day for a couple of hundred $.

Jackdied
I think the most of  "happy w x2a " users are not working in industry. Maybe these little issues are not a big deal for them.  But trust me i could loose my client and can not pay  my  flat rents  just because of a single crash. So every single bug are potential troubles for my business.  That's why i'm coming here and looking for X2b update everyday. Thats why I am impatient. Please  understand my/our situation.
 
ahh also sorry for my English.

You wrong mate!!
I'm a pro ,i'm working on many international releases and our works have been reviewed by Defected records and Tony Humphries,i have done five songs for important italian Christmas's movies...
then i'm in the industry.
So many clients choose Sonar Prj over ProTools Prj for its detailed and deep sound......for me Sonar is the best DAW,for me........but,excuse me, when i use a new stuff, before, I read the manual.
Best