• SONAR
  • Two peculiarities with File-Export-Audio (p.2)
2013/07/06 00:49:06
cparmerlee
scook
To convert a stereo track to two mono tracks from the Tracks menu in the Track view select Bounce to Track(s) with Channel format set to Split Mono


Cool !!!   I had been looking everywhere in the Clips menu, but I didn't think to look in Tracks.  The Bounce under clips doesn't seem to have any options, so I didn't think of "bounce" as being the solution, but that works great.
2013/07/06 00:59:02
cparmerlee
scook
Also, if you know in advance that you are going to split tracks to mono, why not record them that way in the first place?


These are live recordings.  I tried doing some live recordings with SONAR on a notebook.  It was just too unreliable and too complicated for working under pressure.  So the present recordings are 2- or 4-track on a Zoom H4n.  I don't think that device has the option to save as mono tracks.
 
I am looking at the next step being Allen Heath ICE16, which can record 16 tracks.  It appears that box saves each channel as a separate mono WAV.
2013/07/06 06:22:39
gswitz
Useful case for audio cache in Synths and VSTs: hit the space bar, ad a few automation nodes and then hit the space bar again (without moving the now time) .I can think of no useful case for wanting the cached audio data to follow the now time to a new position.
 
Since there is a button you can hit to clear the cache/reset audio engine, it seems to me that it would be easy to automate the triggering of this action when the time-line is moved from the place where you stopped your project.
 
It is precisely because this should be so easy that I wonder if there isn't more to it. I'm not sure if causing all the plug-ins to reset has some performance cost and that Sonar has trouble determining when there might be cached data in the VSTs?
 
Or maybe there is a specification for VSTs or midi synths that they are following and they don't want to break the spec?
 
Perhaps for large project with lots of midi stuff, executing the reset takes a long time. I really don't know the answer here.
 
This link shows the Reset and Audio Engine buttons on the Transport Module of the Control Bar.
 
2013/07/06 08:44:15
scook
cparmerlee

These are live recordings.  I tried doing some live recordings with SONAR on a notebook.  It was just too unreliable and too complicated for working under pressure.  So the present recordings are 2- or 4-track on a Zoom H4n.  I don't think that device has the option to save as mono tracks.


There is an option on the audio import dialog to import as mono tracks.
2013/07/22 19:57:01
cparmerlee
Well, I thought this was solved, but today the file export started behaving badly in ways that I'm 90% certain were not happening before today.
 
This morning I activated the MP3 license (following the 30-day free trial).  I set up a simple project to test that and it failed with "The specified selection did not contain any audio data." 
 
This project couldn't be simpler.  I added a single instrument track, input from my Midi keyboard, output to Master.  There is no separate audio track.  I attached TruePianos to that track, but the results are the same with any synth, I think.  I then recorded the first two measures of Twinkle, Twinkle into measures 2 and 3.  The problem is that the normal export procedure would be to click on the clip, which sets the time range to measures 2 through 3.  Then File-Export-Audio.  That fails every time.
 
I realize there is no "audio" data per se, because it is just saved as MIDI and the audio is generated on the fly.  However, here is the crazy thing.  If I manually select anything OTHER than measures 2-3, the export works perfectly!?  For example, if I select starting with the second beat of measure 2 through the end of 3, I get a proper WAV or MP3 containing the 7 selected beats.  If I select starting with the last beat of measure 1 through measure 3, the export works and has all 8 beats of Twinkle in all its glory.
 
I think the reason I never noticed this before is that I was always selecting a bunch of clips to include in the export.
 
Can anybody repeat this test to verify I am not insane?  This surely must be a bug.  It makes no sense that it would work in every case EXCEPT the case where you select exactly the range corresponding to the clip's range.

2013/07/23 03:05:11
KPerry
There are a couple of per VST settings you can make in the PlugIn Manager that may help the buffer clearance (Suspend on play/suspend on stop IIRC).
2013/07/23 03:37:29
Kalle Rantaaho
"cparmerlee: This morning I activated the MP3 license (following the 30-day free trial).  I set up a simple project to test that and it failed with "The specified selection did not contain any audio data." 
 
This project couldn't be simpler.  I added a single instrument track, input from my Midi keyboard, output to Master.  There is no separate audio track.  I attached TruePianos to that track, but the results are the same with any synth, I think.  I then recorded the first two measures of Twinkle, Twinkle into measures 2 and 3.  The problem is that the normal export procedure would be to click on the clip, which sets the time range to measures 2 through 3.  Then File-Export-Audio.  That fails every time."
 
AFAIK using Simple Instrument Tracks you should export by selecting the track clicking the track number ( and also selecting the desired range in the timeline above, if necessary), not the clip.
I only use separate audio and MIDI tracks with soft synths so I'm not 100% sure.
2013/07/23 09:53:12
cparmerlee
Kalle Rantaaho
AFAIK using Simple Instrument Tracks you should export by selecting the track clicking the track number ( and also selecting the desired range in the timeline above, if necessary), not the clip.
I only use separate audio and MIDI tracks with soft synths so I'm not 100% sure.



Right.  When I click on the clip, it automatically selects the track and it also sets the time range to be exactly the same beginning and end times as the clip.  In that situation, File-Export-Audio produces the error dialog.
 
But if I were to do a  Select All (Ctl-A), in my example that would set the beginning of the range to the empty measure 1 and the end of the range to the end of the clip.  And that works.  It only fails when the time selection matches the clip exactly -- and obviously that is the case the really OUGHT to work.
 
I never noticed this happening until after I activated the MP3 license.  It seems unlikely to me that activating the license would cause this behavior, but it is possible.
 
And just for another curiosity, you might notice my clip is just a little short of 2 bars.  I copied that same clip to measures 4-5, which leaves a little gap at the end of measure 3.  If I select both of those clips, causing the range to go from the start of the first clip to the end of the second clip, it also fails.
 
Before I report this as a bug, it would be nice to know if anybody else can reproduce this problem.  It only takes about 30 seconds to set up this test.  I'll upload my project if that makes it easier.
2013/07/23 10:06:21
cparmerlee
KPerry
There are a couple of per VST settings you can make in the PlugIn Manager that may help the buffer clearance (Suspend on play/suspend on stop IIRC).

Sounds hopeful, but I am having trouble finding those settings.  Can anybody provide a pointer?
 
BTW, I have been using the reset button before exporting.  It seems to work about 80% of the time.  I don't really understand why it wouldn't work 100% of the time.
 
===
 
On edit, I found this article that describes those settings.
 
http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR%20X2&Lang=EN&Req=Mixing.38.html
Always suspend on stop. When enabled the VST plug-in state will be set to suspended when the transport is stopped in SONAR. The default behavior is to keep VST’s always in a resumed state. Enabling this option will prevent effects tails from being heard when the transport is stopped. 
Always suspend on play. When Always suspend on Play is selected, the plug-in will reset when playback starts. Select this option for any VST instruments that have problems with stuck notes when stopping the transport. The Always suspend on Play property is also useful for effects that generate a tail, such as delays and reverbs. The effect is that you will hear the tails when the transport stops, but not when the transport rolls again. Always Suspend on Play is disabled by default.
  
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