2016/09/09 06:26:19
Glyn Barnes
eph221
Glynn there's many fabulous players in London of course.  My teacher at one point was a Lutenist for the Royal Shakespeare Company.  The spanish guitar centre located in the royal opera house is the place to get connected.  


Yeah, but I am out in the boondocks! There are quite a few people around however, its a nice part of the country that tends to attract arty types of all sorts.  
2016/09/09 08:50:05
Slugbaby
Another vote for lessons.
 
After 20+ years of playing the guitar, I took formal singing lessons.  Not only did it help my vocal abilities, but because I was learning a new instrument it gave other ideas to transpose to my original instrument.  
 
One example was reading sheet music:  When i tried learning as a guitarist, I'd look at the pages and quickly memorize the tune.  Then I realized that I wasn't connecting the dots on the staff to the structure of the song.  When I started sight-reading for vocals, I was able to focus on the separation of the notes (up a third, down a fifth, etc) which then cleared the way for sight-reading on a guitar.
2016/09/09 09:31:21
BobF
Don't bother thinking about lessons.  I've been thinking about lessons for decades and it hasn't helped a bit 
 
OK, seriously.  My primary is guitar but I've become interested more and more in getting better with keys.  Are piano lessons the foundation for all things keys/synths?
2016/09/09 10:12:17
craigb
BobF
Don't bother thinking about lessons.  I've been thinking about lessons for decades and it hasn't helped a bit 
 
OK, seriously.  My primary is guitar but I've become interested more and more in getting better with keys.  Are piano lessons the foundation for all things keys/synths?




No Bob.  That would be tuba lessons.
 
(I keed!  I keed!   )
2016/09/09 10:55:40
BobF
craigb
BobF
Don't bother thinking about lessons.  I've been thinking about lessons for decades and it hasn't helped a bit 
 
OK, seriously.  My primary is guitar but I've become interested more and more in getting better with keys.  Are piano lessons the foundation for all things keys/synths?




No Bob.  That would be tuba lessons.
 
(I keed!  I keed!   )




You funny guy, Joe. 
 
I ask this because of the obvious differences I hear in approach to pure piano pieces and synths/keys that I hear as part of a rock ensemble, for example.
 
My question is really about style, I guess.  Will playing Floyd Cramer or church tunes on piano help me play better synth parts for my own rock creations?  I can see where basic fingering exercises to develop muscle memory would be a huge help.  But style is a completely different aspect.
 
When I was a kid playing power chords on my guitar, my brother was taking piano lessons.  He was pretty good, but his repertoire was entirely gospel.  Something neither of us had any real interest in playing.
2016/09/09 17:00:41
dmbaer
Glyn Barnes
Finger usage is one point I have identified as a fundamental flaw in my playing. I tend to get "tied in knots" because I don't finger the notes correctly, and I am sure I hold my hands too flat.
I have an understanding of written music, but I have to take it slowly and decipher bits, I am not a fluent sight reader but I think practice would improve things there as I have the basics.



I investigated this a little further.  This is a subscription deal.  You can do it monthly for $47 (if I recall correctly) or get one year for the price of ten months.  Doing a trial for one-month would hardly break the bank and it might be exactly what you are looking for.  The lady who runs the course appears to be marvelously well-trained and seems to have given a lot of thought as to how to mount a teaching mechanism via the web.  If my playing wasn't compromised due to hand surgery (thank goodness for step entry and variable DAW tempo) I would be greatly tempted to give it a try myself.
 
Should you do so, please report back on what the experience is like.
2016/09/09 23:30:05
craigb
BobF
craigb
BobF
Don't bother thinking about lessons.  I've been thinking about lessons for decades and it hasn't helped a bit 
 
OK, seriously.  My primary is guitar but I've become interested more and more in getting better with keys.  Are piano lessons the foundation for all things keys/synths?




No Bob.  That would be tuba lessons.
 
(I keed!  I keed!   )




You funny guy, Joe. 
 
I ask this because of the obvious differences I hear in approach to pure piano pieces and synths/keys that I hear as part of a rock ensemble, for example.
 
My question is really about style, I guess.  Will playing Floyd Cramer or church tunes on piano help me play better synth parts for my own rock creations?  I can see where basic fingering exercises to develop muscle memory would be a huge help.  But style is a completely different aspect.
 
When I was a kid playing power chords on my guitar, my brother was taking piano lessons.  He was pretty good, but his repertoire was entirely gospel.  Something neither of us had any real interest in playing.




Ok, the real answer has two parts.  
 
The first one is this: Find the right teacher.  DON'T get an 80-year old lady as your teacher (which should remove the gospel parts).  Find someone who can teach you all the fundamentals of playing keyboards.  I know that, when I get this chance, I would like a little bit of Classical knowledge as well as some organ exposure - wait, that didn't sound right!   What I mean is that my goal will be to play MY own music, but I'd like to know the correct way to play a piano.  I'd also like some exposure to how Classical music is put together and played (so I can incorporate aspects I like) as well as the basic fundamentals of how an organ is played (which builds on the piano parts and adds "boards or ranks," "drawbars" and "pedals" for example - proper organ playing can really sound good even in non-traditional songs).
 
The second part is: You will also want to learn how to create and synthesize sounds (analog and/or digital).  This includes wave types (sine, saw, etc.), ADSR envelopes (attack, decay, sustain, release), portamento, latching, arpeggiation, wheel usage (volume & modulation), filters (resonance, cutoff), oscillators (like LFO's which are Low frequency oscillators), identifying common sounds & patches (pads, drones, strings, brass, vocoders, etc.), keyboard mapping (splitting, octave shifting, sampling, key transposing) and MIDI.
 
Because combining all of this is important to me, I would not buy a piano but would go for two items (which may be in one device, but I would prefer being separate).  One is a decent, weighted keyboard (probably 60-key, the up & down octave buttons will help cover the rest and I wouldn't have to be limited or abusing those buttons as you do on shorter keyboards). This keyboard doesn't even have to be able to generate sounds, it could be what is called a "dead, MIDI keyboard." A useless device until it is attached to something that can use the MIDI notes generated.  This second device would be a proper, high-end synthesizer (preferably with its own keyboard which can be shorter, say 49 keys).  This gives me the best of both worlds.  The feel of a nice piano with the quick tone generation of a synth.  There are also MIDI-capable add-ons that can provide organ sounds, effects, bass pedals and drawbars.  Plus, when you start to want even more tones and sound-creating abilities or effects, you can get additional rack units (i.e., no attached keyboard) and control them from your MIDI-capable keyboards.
2016/09/10 15:11:16
Glyn Barnes
craigb
What I mean is that my goal will be to play MY own music, but I'd like to know the correct way to play a piano.  I'd also like some exposure to how Classical music is put together and played (so I can incorporate aspects I like) as well as the basic fundamentals of how an organ is played

That is pretty much what I am thinking. Of course piano and organ are two very different instruments dispite sharing a keyboard. As are may things that get played from my controler keyboard, just yesterday I was auditioning sounds in Komplet Kontrol and thinking how differently one needed to approch playing them. I think improving my fingering technique is the main thing, I am also coming round to thinking "keyboard" lessons rather than "piano" lessons.
 
 
craigb
 
The second part is: You will also want to learn how to create and synthesize sounds (analog and/or digital).  This includes wave types (sine, saw, etc.), ADSR envelopes (attack, decay, sustain, release), portamento, latching, arpeggiation, wheel usage (volume & modulation), filters (resonance, cutoff), oscillators (like LFO's which are Low frequency oscillators), identifying common sounds & patches (pads, drones, strings, brass, vocoders, etc.), keyboard mapping (splitting, octave shifting, sampling, key transposing) and MIDI.d.

No, that is not an issue for me, my first exposure was to a EMS Synthi A suitcase synth at college in the 70's and I have always had some sort of synth for around that time. Analogue synths are second nature and I can work with additive and FM .
 
I use to put tracks together using a Roland MC202, SH101 and TR303 bass line, multi tracking onto a Fostex 4 track cassette. What fun that was!
 
I am loving my recently acquired Softube Modular VSTi as I have complete freedom to patch it how I want.
 
That said when confroned with controls with abstract names like "drama" as on found on some modern VSTi's I do scratch my head. All one can do is play and see what happens.
2016/09/10 15:18:26
craigb
Glyn Barnes
That said when confroned with controls with abstract names like "drama" as on found on some modern VSTi's I do scratch my head. 

 
There's a control called "Drama?"  I used to have a patch on my Korg N5 called "Film Drama" that was pretty cool, but I've never heard of a control called "Drama!"  What does it do?  Cause your synth to have random issues and malfunctions at socially inappropriate times? 
 
2016/09/10 16:59:48
Glyn Barnes
craigb
Glyn Barnes
That said when confroned with controls with abstract names like "drama" as on found on some modern VSTi's I do scratch my head. 

 
There's a control called "Drama?"  I used to have a patch on my Korg N5 called "Film Drama" that was pretty cool, but I've never heard of a control called "Drama!"  What does it do?  Cause your synth to have random issues and malfunctions at socially inappropriate times? 
 
Its on Native Instruments Kontour, it does not seem to do much at all. The synth has some lovely presets but I have yet to master programing it.
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