This question is for those of you gentlemen who do audio/video post product work in SX2:
What is your workflow when you have to sync audio to video hit points (punches, footsteps, gunfire, etc.....) in Sonar?

Thanks for your tips.

i can't imagine trying to do all that in sonar. it won't be frame-accurate, and you surely do not want to allow sonar to save in any video format.
 
i'm both musician and filmmaker, so i use vegas for anything visual. i find that i can do most of my sound design there too, as vegas was originally a multitrack audio editor.
 
i work on individual sequences that might be one clip or a group of clips in sonar,  i might do a stereo mix or stems and put it together in vegas. i export in native format (say 48/24), 
then use sound forge to convert to 48/16 wav for vegas. to me, i'm using each program for what it does best.

dlion16
i can't imagine trying to do all that in sonar. it won't be frame-accurate, and you surely do not want to allow sonar to save in any video format.
 
i'm both musician and filmmaker, so i use vegas for anything visual. i find that i can do most of my sound design there too, as vegas was originally a multitrack audio editor.
 
i work on individual sequences that might be one clip or a group of clips in sonar,  i might do a stereo mix or stems and put it together in vegas. i export in native format (say 48/24), 
then use sound forge to convert to 48/16 wav for vegas. to me, i'm using each program for what it does best.

+1...for me, if Vegas did VST I would hardly even need Sonar

Hi vicsant,
 
Foley and sound effect work syncing to video is certainly possible in Sonar. We have quite a few customers that use Sonar for this task.
 
I would recommend the following settings: 
 
1. In Preferences - Customization - Display, Check the setting for Display all times in SMPTE. 
2. In the Track View timeline ruler, hit the plus sign to add the H:M:S:F ruler. You can also remove the M:B:T ruler since this type of work typically does not require measures, beats or ticks.
3. Using a combination of Snap to Landmark and Markers are very useful for marking hit zones and lining clips to them as needed. Markers have a toggle to lock to SMPTE, locking that marker to a specific time and accessing frame time entry.
 
When syncing to video, frame accuracy will depend on the video itself. Any codecs that use compression will remove some frames, and the playback of the video is subject to interpolation.
 
Vegas is now considered a Video editing suite that started as an audio sequencer. It is typically a go to tool for Foley and it's tool pallet is optimized for that type of work. However,with uncompressed video, accurate burn in, there is no reason Sonar would not be up to the task. 
 
If users are running into issues with video and frame accuracy, please let me know.
 
Thanks!
Daniel [Cakewalk]

dlion16
i can't imagine trying to do all that in sonar. it won't be frame-accurate, and you surely do not want to allow sonar to save in any video format.

 
SONAR's video is definitely designed to be frame accurate. We have done tests with burn in frames comparing to SONAR's frame display on the timeline and they match up perfectly. There may be a few exceptions where this could be off by a frame but its certainly frame accurate for most normal use cases. Do you have a specfic scenario that you can demonstrate where it isn't accurate?
As Dan suggests, the best way to test is using a video that has burn in frames and to use an uncompressed file format.

I have a question for Dan. What did you take before taking that avatar pic and do you have any left?

What the heck does uncompressed video or uncompressed file format mean?
 
Could it mean anything but AVCHD G.O.P.?
 
Or is it 4:4:4:4 16bit 4k RAW?
 
 
Here are some practical suggestions:
 
Motion Jpeg uses spatial compression but no temporal compression; it's frame accurate. It is a basic intraframe codec that runs med-high bandwidth at low CPU overhead.
 
Cineform does a nice job with its intraframe HD streaming CODEC. Cineform is owned by Go Pro. They have some free stuff and some high priced stuff. It is medium bandwidth and medium CPU overhead.
 
If someone sends you a G.O.P. interframe video and you wish to do frame accurate work the easiest way to do it is to convert the video into a intraframe Intermediary CODEC that so that any time you stop playback your editor will stop on a complete and discrete frame.
 
Most dedicated video editors can fake displaying a frame from an interframe G.O.P. pretty good but it takes a lot of horse power to do it. Maybe that's why video editors don't do a lot of intensive audio processing?
 
The most important thing to remember is that playing back video takes a lot of CPU and or Bandwidth and the Intermediary CODEC you choose needs to reflect an appreciation of the need to conserve both of those resources for the audio work. If you have extra bandwidth, select a CODEC that uses bandwidth instead of CPU (maybe Motion Jpeg). If you have extra CPU headroom but worry about bandwidth try something with greater spatial compression; something like Cineform.
 
Greater compression requires more CPU power to uncompress but the bandwidth requirements are low. Less compression requires less CPU but more bandwidth.
 
If we worked in Mac OS then Apple Pro Res would be an obvious choice. I just mention that because you can find lots of discussion about intermediary codecs but it is usually about Pro Res.
 
Windows has different choices. I mentioned 2... you can find more.
 
Go look up the meaning of all the bold face terms and you'll be well along your way.
 
Good luck.
 
 
best regards,
mike
 
 

Not sure if that comment was intended for us.
Uncompressed = no codec. i.e. Raw frames. For example you can export an AVI with no codec and it will contain full frame video without any compression, avoiding the costly and potentially inaccurate interpolation/decompression. Of course in the real world most people use some compression which is fine as long as the codec used has sufficient keyframes and resolution to be suitable for video editing. AVCHD as well as MPEG4 are fine for most applications as long as the machine has the codecs installed to handle it.
 
The only reason we mentioned uncompressed video was to simplify troubleshooting. There are some compressed video formats that are intended for streaming only and thus not frame accurate by definition. If insufficient keyframes are present in the video it will not be frame accurate.

Animation CODECs and Image Sequences rarely play back with all the frames in a stream as it requires massive bandwidth.
 
One thing many audio edit workers don't appreciate about how hi tech the work you DAW makers do is that DAWs can only, maybe, sneak a soft drop out every now and then, while a Video app can drop entire frames and no one seems to care.
 
Let me repeat that: Video Edit apps routinely drop frames on preview playback and no one cares.
 
People get concerned when they can't stop on a discrete frame, it's been that way since the days of analog video, and so most apps will assemble a frame no matter where you stop.
 
When Audio apps have a drop out we all get freaked out. Video edit developers have it much easier.
 
 
 
In any event, running an uncompressed bitmap sequence takes up massive bandwidth.
 
If you happen to have a compressed bitmap sequence such as .jpeg or .png  you can balance a reduction of the bandwidth with a need for a little bit of CPU processing.
 
 
 
I think Cakewalk should provide some basic info about the nature of balancing the CPU and the bandwidth needs.
 
 
For example; working with AVCHD is a horrible experience. I wouldn't recommend it. The reason the company GoPro bought the company Cineform was because GoPro had so many dismayed customers that eventually found that purchasing a Cineform CODEC license made playback and editing more practical. GoPro bought Cineform, the codec company because GoPro AVCHD files are too CPU intensive for most folks to work with... including video professionals with dedicated video suites... and so now GoPro provides a solution for it's customers by giving away a lite package and selling an advanced version of the CODEC.
 
 
I'm not saying Cakewalk should buy a CODEC company :-)... but offering a tutorial page about how to... avoid the pain of working with AVCHD will be very helpful. edit to change sentence to: ...select a Intermediary CODEC for smooth and reliable use with SONAR. 
 
 
For today's HD work flows in Windows OS, when no specialized CODEC acceleration playback hardware is available, the Cineform CODEC is my personal favorite. It seems to provide the best balance of bandwidth and CPU requirements and it is a frame accurate intraframe CODEC.
 
 
best regards,
mike
 
 

cakewalk won't respond about all the bugs that have been identified in x2a or when we'll get an update, you know, just common courtesy to people who buy your product, but noel has time to recommend using uncompressed video in sonar to "troubleshoot" trying to put music to picture? the horror... just another typical day in cakeland, folks...