• SONAR
  • Size of Track Description in SONAR X2 (p.2)
2013/07/14 22:07:47
BENT
magek…  I also use sonar live and I totally agree with you, 
I realize it’s not a solution but thought I’d mention this little FREE plug anyway.
"ProXL VstNotes" lets you create “text notes”
It works just like standard vst effect so you can attach notes to every track...
 
www.kvraudio.com/product/vstnotes_by_proxl
2013/07/14 22:08:52
BENT
Sorry double post 
2013/07/14 23:56:42
magek
Thanks Bent.
2013/07/15 00:11:24
robert_e_bone
I used to use Sonar live, but found Brainspawn's Forte MUCH better suited for gigging.
 
I am not bashing Sonar in any way - it's just that if what you are using it for is switching a bunch of keyboard sounds and backing tracks and such, a VST host like Forte is built from the ground up for that, versus Sonar, which is designed for recording purposes.
 
Just a thought - you can download a free demo of Forte from www.brainspawn.com
 
It is fabulous at switching sounds, for example, you can control whether or not it loads samples when loading a preset that uses a sample player - like Kontakt - so that as long as the sound loaded is the same one as last time the preset was loaded, switching back to it is instantaneous.  It also seamlessly allows layering and multiple zones and triggering of sequences and all of that kind of thing, plus it does a fabulous job of managing memory.
 
I LOVE Sonar, been a customer for multiple decades now - I just use Sonar for what they primarily built it for, and use Forte for live gigging.  I build sequences in Sonar that I will trigger through Sonar, then load them up for use in Forte and off I go.
 
It also never crashes on me.
 
Bob Bone
 
2013/07/15 15:31:26
magek
Bob Bone: great info. I have Cantabile, and almost got used to it. At the time I looked into that, I vaguely remember considering Forte (2 at the time, I think). I'll give the new 3 a shot this week. My main concerns with both are their ability to also do some audio processing, something that I wasn't sure of. In my various band configurations, I play guitar, sax, and use a vocoder. All those work great in SONAR, routing through various tracks, ins/outs, effects, buses, etc. In some of my more "simplistic" band configurations, Forte and Cantabile may be a more efficient solution than SONAR. Another consideration is that in some band setups, I've used backing tracks for missing/extra elements of a song, as well as a click track to accommodate that. Now, I understand I can trigger those tracks from Forte or Cantabile, but if a background singer doesn't show, for example, and I need to un-mute or un-archive that track that night, it's so easy in SONAR. As well as the ability to route the click only to whoever needs it. I would assume in Forte or Cantabile that I would need to export/create the audio track specifically for that performance, which would be just a little more complex than un-muting a track.
 
Thanks all for the suggestions to work around a very SMALL shortcoming in X2.
2013/07/16 08:46:29
Mistergreen
magek
If I create a new blank project, then insert any type of track, let's say an audio track, in the Track pane, there will be one track. It will be numbered "1" and to the right of the "1" there is an audio track icon. Then, to the right of the audio track icon will be a text box with a default of "Track 1" in that text box. I can then double-click in the text box and change "Track 1" to anything I want. I can grab the right side of the text box and increase its width, but only so far. I can enter 2-3 times more text than can be displayed in the greatest width of the text box. If I hover over the text box with the mouse, the tool tip will show the entire contents of the text box. I'm not sure exactly how many characters are allowed, but certainly more than the text box width will support.
 
In previous versions of SONAR/Cakewalk (been a user since version 3 of Cakewalk), that text box could be widened to display the entire maximum width of the contents. Can't do that, as far as I know, in SONAR X2a.




Just out of curiosity, what are you trying to enter that won't fit? 
2013/07/16 09:14:34
robert_e_bone
@Matty K
 
I would proactively have ALL of the backing tracks available to Forte, with the default preset set to mute the ones for singers that are usually there.
 
That way, IF someone doesn't show, all I have to do is unmute the tracks that belong to that individual, whether or not that is vocals or the bass player.
 
I used to do all of this all the time gigging in a band that covered complex covers, and I have done the one-man thing countless times too.
 
My ONLY issue with Sonar for the nature of the gigs that caused problems was the load times for each project, whereas with Forte, I would load the bank of presets needed for the entire show in 1 shot, and would have literally instantaneous preset switching within songs and between songs.  MANY times, we would have the dance floor packed with folks, and we were seamlessly able to string 3-4 tunes together that would keep them all out there grooving (yeah, I used that word).
 
I HAD initially attempted to do the shows with Sonar, because it is by far my favorite music software.  I just couldn't get songs to load fast enough to not have gaps between songs, and that was a problem for the nature of our performances (which were paying for my gear).
 
FORTUNATELY, I am no longer playing those types of gigs, and I rarely do anything outside of Sonar these days, which keeps me quite happy.  I will be attempting to put a band together to play out a BUNCH of progressive/fusion favorites, (Dregs, Genesis, Floyd, Yes, Kansas, Holdsworth, Ponty, etc), and will almost certainly be using Sonar for the gigs, as people cannot really dance in odd meters at 168 beats per minute, though I would pay to see them try. :)
 
Bob Bone
 
2013/07/16 13:05:20
magek
@Bob Bone
Sounds awesome. I looked at Forte a little last night after reading through a lot of their forum, and it really does look like I can accomplish what I need in a live show with Forte, energyXT and Sam Solo. I'll never leave SONAR, but may find adding these tools much better for live performance. Maybe one day Cakewalk will develop a "live" use product, or "modularize" SONAR to disable features unnecessary for live performance. That would be cool.
 
Thanks for uncovering this solution for me!
 
@Mistergreen
Uh oh, now you've made me realize that there are a few other boo-boos in SONAR (and plugins) that I have been compensating for over the many years of use...
Here's what I will put in a track description:
(assigned MIDI device and channel number) sound/patch/program short description (plugin name and patch) SONGS that use this track/patch
 
Now, here's why:
The order in which I turn on my hardware - Laptop, Ultra 8R, Axiom Pro, other MIDI controller (maybe my Triton, or Hammond, or 01w), and sometimes my MidAir. If I happen to get those MIDI devices out of order, or omit one, SONAR will substitute something else, or nothing. So I always document my track with the assigned MIDI device so I can easily remember what needs to be set.
Next, a simple description of the track: pad, lead, piano, etc.
Next, sometimes, if a plugin is upgraded or changed, SONAR will not remember or communicate correctly with the plugin and the correct patch will not load with the project. So I document what VST and what patch should be used. Again, that allows me to quickly "repair" a track if it goes wonky when I load the project.
Then, I will document the songs that I use the track on.
 
I will create a project for each song, adding the tracks I need. Then, I will save those tracks as a template named for the song. When I assemble a setlist, I will create a project for the set, and load each of the set's songs by inserting the track template. Most sets I can accomplish with 16 MIDI channels or less, but sometimes I will have to duplicate a channel and mute one track. My Axiom can use 4 channels per program, so I set 4 programs to use channels 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16. Sometimes I will have a few extra programs for songs that don't organize into those channel groups nicely. There are times I will load many other songs in a single set, and use a lot of track muting so I don't have to open a project before each set. My machine is optimized such that I can load a set (project) in less than 2-3 seconds, so if the mood needs a song substitution, I can load fairly quickly.
 
I don't often use audio/midi tracks, so I usually keep the right pane of the track view collapsed so I can see more of the details of the track setup. My latest effort to compensate has been to shorten all those descriptions so things fit.
2013/07/18 09:49:26
jerrypettit
Brent, regarding vstnotes_by_proxl.  I just went to that link and saw a couple of comments at KVR about it crashing Reaper and Cubase64 (the Reaper commenter saying that for some reason he couldn't delete it from his VST folder!).  The developer's site also no longer exists.  How well has this been working for you in X2?
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