• SONAR
  • conexant high definition audio driver (p.2)
2009/01/04 14:46:49
Chris Hawkins
You have to take the 'Its a crap game media player sound card' assault with a grain of salt ;-)

As for a sound card goes - the fact is that an onboard sound card is not SO bad... somebody mentioned the quality of converters... well this really holds not argument anymore... most converters you find in 'Pro Audio Interfaces' are the same as you would find on an onboard sound card. Some offer slightly better converters - but the margin is very nil few db at best. The preamps on an onboard interface might not be the best as yes they are designed for simple mics for online chat etc. But most onboard cards will have a decent line input if you have an external pre-amp, or some cards have even a digital input if you have a pre-amp with a digital output - this would provide an excellent quality recording - yes even on a ACL888 (Realtek HD) onboard sound card.

As for drivers... I think we need to get the terms right here... too much confusion due to incorrect terms being used which are supposed to simplify things - in which they do not. Somebody mentioned ASIO drivers and WDM drivers... well this is not a true statement. WDM is a driver model (format) designed my Microsoft for device vendors - these drivers are what one would call Kernel Mode drivers... this 'driver' is what allows Windows itself to talk to the hardware. ASIO is in fact NOT a driver - it is an API (Application Programming Interface), an API's job is to provide an Interface or a connection from the audio application (Sonar, Acid, Windows Media Player, WinAmp whatever) to the actual driver (again the WDM format Kernel Mode driver that talks to the device). ASIO provides a path that allows for a robust, low latency to the WDM driver. Not all vendors (i.e onboard sound card vendors) will supply an ASIO API for their driver... but yes an ASIO API would be optimal. ASIO2ALL is such an API that can be used on virtually any WDM (again kernel mode) driver. Other APIs such WDM/KS and MME are alternative ways for the application to talk to the WDM driver. I could go into WDM/KS and MME more but that's off topic ;-) (I should point out that technically WDM/KS can also provide a low latency path the driver as it bypasses Windows' KMixer - which produces about 20-30ms of latency).

In a nutshell (sorry I tend to ramble with geek speak) onboard sound cards are not 'EVIL' as most will make them out to be... if you are doing mostly MIDI with softsynths and rendering to a file audio file - then the quality of the converters and Pre Amps will be irrelevant. If you are recording (guitar, vocals etc) then maybe look at a good external preamp, honestly a good (perhaps tad pricey) preamp will give you far better results than say an averaged priced 'Pro Audio Interface'. I would recommend getting the ASIO4ALL API (which is free) and using that to lower the onboard card's latency.

In a few years (if Microsoft has it's way) WDM drivers will be gone and replaced with Microsoft's UAA - which means all cards/interfaces will need to work directly with Windows with no 3rd party drivers - which when poorly written, cause stability issues with Windows itself (again WDM drivers are Kernel mode drivers). Then everything will change!

Cheers,
Chris
2009/01/04 15:10:29
Chris Hawkins
Jonbouy - great post! Just thought I would point out that in fact HD Audio is a specification by Intel not Microsoft. More info here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Audio

UAA will make a world of difference in the coming years! Will be a rocky road while it is implemented but the end result looks promising... no more 3rd party drivers to cause problems with Windows!

Cheers,
Chris
2009/01/04 15:45:14
Jonbouy

ORIGINAL: Chris Hawkins

Jonbouy - great post! Just thought I would point out that in fact HD Audio is a specification by Intel not Microsoft. More info here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Audio

UAA will make a world of difference in the coming years! Will be a rocky road while it is implemented but the end result looks promising... no more 3rd party drivers to cause problems with Windows!

Cheers,
Chris


Cool thanks for the Intel info...I thinks it's kinda funny when some far-eastern chip manufacturer gets run down for the quality of its drivers when just their quality assurance department alone is prolly far bigger than the entire manufacturing facility of many specialist audio card manufacturers, but there ya go.

I guess apart from those that NEED top spec gear because their income depends on the guaranteed quality of their work, there are plenty here that have to justify their overspend on gear by putting the shrewd among us down...
2009/01/04 15:45:17
daveny5
I have an HP Pavilion dv6500 laptop with all stock hardware.


There's your problem. Sonar is a pro audio program. Running it on stock hardware is like trying to run a high end video game on a computer with a stock video card. It just doesn't make sense and it won't work very well.

You should also have at least 2GB of RAM to run Vista. You didn't mention how much you had.
2009/01/04 15:46:46
Jonbouy

ORIGINAL: daveny5

I have an HP Pavilion dv6500 laptop with all stock hardware.


There's your problem. Sonar is a pro audio program. Running it on stock hardware is like trying to run a high end video game on a computer with a stock video card. It just doesn't make sense and it won't work very well.

You should also have at least 2GB of RAM to run Vista. You didn't mention how much you had.


Nothing like having a good example when you need one....
2009/01/04 15:48:11
Chris Hawkins

ORIGINAL: daveny5

I have an HP Pavilion dv6500 laptop with all stock hardware.


There's your problem. Sonar is a pro audio program. Running it on stock hardware is like trying to run a high end video game on a computer with a stock video card. It just doesn't make sense and it won't work very well.

You should also have at least 2GB of RAM to run Vista. You didn't mention how much you had.


Can you tell us why it doesn't make sense - I mean technically ??

Chris
2009/01/04 15:55:33
daveny5
Can you tell us why it doesn't make sense - I mean technically ??


Does it make sense to buy a $500 program and run it on equipment that is not capable of using it to its full capability? It doesn't to me, but then again, I'm a pragmatic guy. That's like buying the top of the line HDTV and running it on a regular cable box without HD.
2009/01/04 16:00:30
Jonbouy
Does it make sense to buy a $500 program and run it on equipment that is not capable of using it to its full capability?


If you managed to read up rather than re-iterating the same loop you've been stuck in for several years you'll see that you can run your precious software very well these days on the onboard gear....period.

And SOME of us are doing just that....with no problems, no inferior quality....nuffink.

Read it again and weep...
2009/01/04 16:09:54
daveny5
you'll see that you can run your precious software very well these days on the onboard gear....period.


Not really. Depends on what you call "very well". Most people have trouble with it.
2009/01/04 16:12:41
Jonbouy
ORIGINAL: daveny5

you'll see that you can run your precious software very well these days on the onboard gear....period.


I was referring to the Conexant, not outboard gear. I didn't realize you hijacked someone else's thread.


Who mentioned 'outboard' gear? You just proved you don't read too well.

The conexant is an HD audio compliant card just like the realtek blah, blah, blah....and no I didn't hi-jack the thread I contributed on topic with some relevant information....you however just spout some vagary you believe to be true which is in fact plain wrong.
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