you'll see that you can run your precious software very well these days on the onboard gear....period.

I thought you said "outboard" not "onboard". I wouldn't use it, but whatever floats your boat.... For one thing, onboard soundchips tend to pick up low level noise from the motherboard.

ORIGINAL: daveny5

you'll see that you can run your precious software very well these days on the onboard gear....period.

Whatever floats your boat....

Which is the exact opposite of what you were saying in your first contrib.

And yup I'm afraid to inform you the boat floats pretty good.

Most people have trouble with it.

Most user of onboard sound here aren't allowed to mention the fact without getting laughed at. Pro rata I see folk have as much trouble with various prosumer drivers as the onboard chips.

Does it make sense to buy a $500 piece of hardware and have it have components that can be for most part found in the $50 piece of hardware? In fact most onboard sound cards (Realtek etc) or even Sound Blaster cards have far more stable drivers (again read my above post on what a driver is) than most of the 'Pro Audio' cards. And thanks to ASIO4ALL the superior API (ASIO) can be used with any WDM driver audio device. A Delta 44 has converters with a 99dB (A-weighted) spec. An onboard Realtek ALC888 has a converter of 97dB SNR (A-Weighting) - like I said in a earlier post a mere 2db diff. The M-Audio are no way 'far superior' than the Realtek's - in fact M-Audio does not actually divulge which company makes M-Audio's converters. You could always open it up to find out ;-)

When it comes to components there is only one thing that 'Pro Audio' interfaces have the edge on and that is Mic Pre Amps - but a $500 interface cannot really provide a Grade A pre-amp, when a Grade A pre-amp will cost 3x that amount.

Onboard interfaces are ahead in terms of driver stability, as Jonbouy mentioned, these companies have far better R&D than say Presonus etc...

Presonus: Employees approx. 60
Realtek: Employees 970 (2005)

Which one do you think has better R&D based on employees alone?

I for one find the whole 'Pro Interface' marketing hype as funny as road side comedy act. Sure they have an overall edge - but to totally degrade the use of Onboard sound cards or sound blasters sounds a slight snobbish - especially when these remarks are not backed up technically, showing what others have said... a justification for paying a lot of money for an Audio Interface. In 2009 the components that are available have flat lined... why do you think that when you look M-Audio's site or Presonus site, or even MOTU's site all the products are the same as they were 4 years ago?

Chris

ORIGINAL: daveny5

you'll see that you can run your precious software very well these days on the onboard gear....period.

Not really. Depends on what you call "very well". Most people have trouble with it.

What trouble - give us technical information - and yes some interference can make it's way into a internal sound card, Creative Labs have been working on this by covering the PCI card...

http://www.soundblaster.com/ISS/images/products/large/17791_1.png

And how much interference do you think you can find crammed into one of those Firewire or USB interfaces? They are all powered (either by the Firewire bus or USB bus) - we are talking alot of chips being powered inside a small casing.

Chris

Hey I've just put together an audio example so you can hear for yourself.

The sound of the Sonar Producer Forum captured on HD Audio

In fact most onboard sound cards (Realtek etc) or even Sound Blaster cards have far more stable drivers (again read my above post on what a driver is) than most of the 'Pro Audio' cards.

Where did you get that information? Creative is known for its crappy drivers. They also way overhype the capabilities of their equipment advertising 24 bit cards which only playback 24 bit and record at 16 bit.

And thanks to ASIO4ALL the superior API (ASIO) can be used with any WDM driver audio device.

The ASIO4ALL driver isn't even an ASIO driver. Its a WDM driver made to look like an ASIO driver.

Presonus: Employees approx. 60
Realtek: Employees 970 (2005)

So more employees equal better products? You're joking right? Tell that to GM or Ford or Chrysler.

You guys can go ahead and use your game cards. I'll stick with my Delta44. I have a Soundblaster Audigy sitting in my junk drawer where it belongs. I have the Realtek HD soundchip in my computer disabled. I've tried both of them and they don't compare to the quality of the Delta44.

ORIGINAL: daveny5

And thanks to ASIO4ALL the superior API (ASIO) can be used with any WDM driver audio device.

The ASIO4ALL driver isn't even an ASIO driver. Its a WDM driver made to look like an ASIO driver.

Dave ASIO4ALL is not a driver WDM or otherwise as Chris points out it's an API, the description of what a driver is as you are plainly unaware is also higher up the thread.

You guys can go ahead and use your game cards. I'll stick with my Delta44. I have a Soundblaster Audigy sitting in my junk drawer where it belongs. I have the Realtek HD soundchip in my computer disabled. I've tried both of them and they don't compare to the quality of the Delta44.

And there you go again with your derisory 'game card' view. Nobody is knocking your Delta or saying you shouldn't use it, or you won't get it working properly all of which would be garbage, so maybe you could extend that courtesy to folk who use other devices, especially when you don't even know the facts, the major one being this. If we both bounce a 24 bit wav file out of Sonar it there ain't gonna be any difference between yours or mine whatever you may imagine in your head.

ORIGINAL: Jonbouy

If we both bounce a 24 bit wav file out of Sonar it there ain't gonna be any difference between yours or mine whatever you may imagine in your head.

Technically speaking,the bounced wav of Sonar or indeed any DAW is totally irrelevant to the quality of the souncard-IF we are talking for pre-recorded material,samples,and VSTs!And of course,if we could transfer a project through 2 different PCs with the exact same settings (EQs,filtering,signal processing in-the-box) and plug ins used (again without having recorded anything through the soundcard),and 2 totally different souncards, the bounced audio will be identical

However and seeing as some people here do know the tech side of things I have mainly too concerns:

1.The quality of the AD\DA converters between a consumer audio card and a so-called "pro-audio interface"
This means there is the chance that if we record material through our soundcard it will not be recorded with the same quality if the AD\DA converters are not of the same quality
But even if we only use pre-recorded material and VSTs,denpending on what you hear you end up making different decisions about the afforenmentioned settings in your project.So a degraded quality of sound can possibly lead to a misjudged mix and that I think doesnt need further technical explanations

2.The quality of the drivers between a consumer card and a "pro-audio inerface"
And Im not concerned about how that could affect the audio output quality BUT how it could affect the latency of the device

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