I have a new analog summing mixer (Phoenix Nicerizer 16) and am having trouble routing it back into Sonar so I can print a mix and hear it through my monitors. I use Sonar X2 in Windows 8 with Apollo as my audio interface. I have successfully routed tracks to the summing mixer and I can mix and monitor through the headphone jack on the summing mixer.  I have not figure out how to get a signal back into Sonar. I ran the main outputs from the summing mixer into inputs 7/8 of the Apollo. I went through steps of using: External Insert interface   without any success. This may well be something that needs to be addressed through the Apollo Console application but I'm hoping someone here has some good advice for me here.
Thanks, Paul
 

Have you turned on "input echo" in Sonar, on the tracks you're trying to route into ?

I will try that thanks.

Sorry didn't work. I can see levels in the master section in the selected channels but I can't rout the signal into any buss including the master buss.
 

Well, you are making progress then.  The signal is making it into sonar.
 
The summed signals need to be sent directly out the apollo's outputs (8, right?).  There should be nothing showing on sonar's master output (since all signals are subed out).  Assuming everything is routed correctly in the nicerizer and the apollo mixer, you should be getting a signal in sonar on inputs 7/8 if apollo is hooked up 1-8 for in and out.  Now 7/8 need to be assigned to master bus.  The easiest way to do that is in the inspector for 7/8 - down at the bottom.
 
The real question is how to monitor sonar's master bus.  It needs to go to a separate hardware D/A output and then to a monitor so you can hear the output of the recording.  Or trust that the nicerizer's output is exactly the same as what sonar is recording.  It should be, but ....  Of course, you need to get SONAR 7/8 in to the master output first.  If you have already checked 7/8 bus output, I'm not sure where the next  step is.  Try a blank project and hook a synth or cd to the nicerizer and see if you can record that signal.
 
@

Hi Paulisher,
I use a summing mixer all the time (mine is an SSL). Here's how I set mine up (this assumes your monitoring off a feed from the summing mixer):
 
1. route D/A outputs to the inputs on the summing mixer.
2. Route tracks directly to those outputs. Do not route ANYTHING to a master bus.
3. On your master bus set it's output to "none".
4. Take the summed "2 bus" output off your mixer and bring that into an input on your interface...for example, you might use the last pair on your interface, say 15/16.
5. Create an audio track in Sonar with an input of whatever you used for your input (in the above example I used 15/16). Label it "print track" or "mixdown" or some other descriptive title. Set its output to your master bus. This is the only track that outputs to your master bus.

Once that's done when you want to print your mixdown just hit the record arm on your "print track" and hit record. This records the output from your summing mixer to that track. The reason I set the "print track" output to the Master bus (which, again, does not have an output) is that it gives me a place to view the signal coming from the summing mixer aside from the actual recording track. For example, I like to have an analyzer and some other meters for the signal from my summing mixer so I put them in the Master bus fx bin and enable input echo on the "print track".
 
Another option for the master bus is to set it's output to a set of hardware outs that bypass your summing mixer to a separate input on your monitor controller. That way you can listen to the mixdown by selecting that input without the summing mixer in the chain (I frequently do this).
 
This also allows for easy versioning of mixdowns. If you want to create a new mixdown just clone your print track, delete the media on the new track, archive the old one and create a new mixdown. I use version numbers and dates on my print tracks so I can keep track of what is what.
 
Good luck
Dean
 
EDIT: Gah! AT beat me to it 

Thank you all for your help. I won't be able to work on this again until tomorrow afternoon and I'll post my results. Thanks again.
Paul

1. Send the signal to your main out
2. Then put it into your inputs of your mixer
3. Take the outputs of your mixer to the inputs of your sound card
4. In sonar make a stereo track or 2 mono tracks (depending on your taste on how you have routed it)
5. Arm the track and select the inputs in the drop down arrow menu
6. Record it
 
Its just like Re-Amping bro. If you just understand that the main outs take your signal out of sonar and the sound card inputs put it back into sonar, you can do it. just put what ever you want in between those 2 things.
 
 
Thank me!
CJ
 

Is this still a common way of doing things? I thought outputting to a mixer and routing it back to the DAW for mixdown was no longer the "proper" way to do things. Is this a special mixer or something? I tried this once with my Mackie and it was a miserable failure (I was trying to emulate my buddy's pro set up) then I asked a friend of mine who teaches engineering and runs a studio (different buddy) and he said that things weren't done that way anymore because it just degrades the sound quality and that I should use the internal mixer or a MIDI controller if I wanted to mix by hand.
 
Sorry if that's totally wrong or weird sounding but there really is something I find alluring about mixing through and analog board like the big boys used to. If there are benefits to doing things this way I'd love to learn more. My Mackie board is one of the nice older American made models and sounds great (and is in near perfect condition). It also has line outs on each channel so with my Layla I could theoretically mix 8 channels at a time with it. Not sure how useful that would be but as I said... I am very curious about this kind of thing.
 
Cheers.

Hi Beeps,
I'm usually pretty wary of "proper ways" and "wrong ways". For me the validity of any technique is measured solely by it's utility. That said, summing mixers are pretty common and many large studios with very nice gear still certainly use analog consoles.
 
For me, I use my SSL because of a few things:
1. It changes the sound in a way that I like. I've actually done null testing on resultant mixdowns done internally and through the SSL and it absolutely changes the sound in a quantifiable way. There is some controversy surrounding this topic, particularly with passive summing devices, but I'm hesitant to wade into those waters. There are plenty of sources out there that go into detail about this and you can read as much as you'd like about it by doing a Google search (one interesting place to start might be this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYpoOg1I9UM).
2. My SSL also has a bus compressor and bus EQ built in to it. These are both very nice hardware devices that I would use anyway.
3. My SSL has an nice output section that I use for monitoring. It's just convenient.
 
There are certainly negatives as well....no fast mixdown is probably at the top of that list, but for me that's outweighed by the positive factors.
 
Dean