• SONAR
  • anybody have tips on legal patent on the album i finnished? (p.3)
2013/07/06 19:05:49
bigboi
Poor man's copywrite is no good....u can not mail it to yourself and expect to see any protection. Copywrite through the library of Congress.
2013/07/06 19:06:08
ELsMystERy
I am in my mid 40s and started recording when I was about 18 (not including simply running a tape recorder to evaluate band rehearsals prior to that). I ran into some problems with a small indie label that wanted to sign me in the 80s. The owner/producer wanted to be included in the registered copyrights before even offering a contract. It was a bit more complicated than that, but my attorney at the time told me not to sign anything with them. Another incident I encountered was when I was creating software and some of my programs ended up on the black market in some odd country like Malaysia. People who had never purchased it started requesting tech support.
 
I also had a volunteer organization that I did some (volunteer) programming for consult attorneys when I revoked their rights to continue using the programs and deleted them from the server. Since it was never a work-for-hire (has to be an agreement in writing designating it as a work-for-hire) they just told people they were going to have their attorneys sue me, but no one ever tried. They tried to convince me that the law says it is a work-for-hire unless there is a contract stating otherwise. ~ROLLING EYES~ I told them they were not reading the law correctly and that they should get an attorney to explain it to them. I never heard from them again.
 
I am now signed to a publisher and record label, so I no longer have to register my music. The label/publisher owns it and handles all of that. The label has had artists contact them who want to get signed and keep ownership: it doesn't work that way. I just have to register it with BMI. As for my work in application development, everyone who pays any amount for a program seems to think that because they payed something to have it created that they own it. They never want to pay the cost of making it a work-for-hire.
2013/07/06 19:10:35
AT
This is all rather hypothetical - you have to actually make money selling the work in order for someone to steal it.  And if you are making money (not a living, but money) you likely already have an attorney and the forms filled out.  Then in court it becomes a lying contest.
 
My favorite was in back in NYC many moons ago.  A guy I knew claimed he had a great idea for a movie script but refused to send it out in fear someone would steal it.  He wanted my advice (I was in that business) but couldn't quite grasp the concept that someone had to read it before they would give you money for it.  Getting someone to read it is the problem.  And an idea is basically useless.  Screenwriting is a craft, and a well crafted bad idea will sell before a badly crafted good idea.  Kinda like songwriting.
 
It seems the lady doth protest too much.
 
@
2013/07/06 20:19:29
ELsMystERy
AT
A guy I knew claimed he had a great idea for a movie script but refused to send it out in fear someone would steal it.



Some people have actually called my publisher hoping to get some kind of deal, but when told they needed to send a demo they refused because they were afraid their material would get stolen. Some claimed to have "the best material anyone has ever heard". Some of these people had nothing: no recordings, nothing online to listen to... She explained to them that it doesn't matter if they are the next Elvis, if they won't send out demos no one will work with them and if they are hesitant then they should ask an attorney. Demos are part of the process. You can always copyright something before you send it out. If someone does want to sign you, the copyrights can be reassigned. They can also be reverted back to you later and some contracts have provisions for that.
 
With all of the opportunities available for indie artists now, you can't assume that your material won't make any money, or get used illegally by someone. You have to put it out there to be sure and it should be protected when you do. A copyright infringement can be as simple as someone buying a download and then sharing it on their website, or using it as a music bed in a homemade YouTube video without your permission.
2013/07/07 03:26:19
Goddard
Legal patent?
 
On the album you "finnished"?
 
Sent it to your house?
 
Is your house in Finland?
 
This outfit can probably help you get a legal patent...
http://www.fspat.com/
 

 
2013/07/07 08:06:41
Guitarhacker
As far as registering a song with the copyright office..... No Sir, I don't.
 
That is not to say that I don't protect my work, I just do not use the US Library of Congress (LOC) to do it.
 
I use a service provided by Masterwriter software called SONGUARD. It is basically a third party secure server which date stamps the submitted song and keeps it on file. A judges written order is needed to retrieve any song submitted.
 
Posting your songs online or in a third party storage site will get a date stamp from the server. Those are not as easy to fake the dates. YouTube, Reverbnation, Sound Cloud, Soundclick, DropBox, all date stamp the files coming in. And in reality, the LOC copyright is nothing more than a date stamped paper that says you submitted a certain song on a specific date to them. They have the original paperwork and hardcopy (CD or cassette) of the material.
 
One reason I do not use the LOC is that I have had several music publishers ask me not to register LOC on any of the songs I send to them. They prefer not to have to reference previous copyrights and research the previous LOC submissions to get the numbers correct. It's their job, I know, but I'm good with the explanation. And yeah these are some reputable, long running publishing houses.
 
In reality, the chances that someone will rip your songs off is actually pretty remote. I don't lose any sleep over the fact that my songs are not LOC protected. Oh yeah, I used to use the LOC for everything. I have a stack of copyrights to prove it. However, I realized that as hard as it is to get someone of importance to even simply listen to a song I write, let alone get it to someone to record..... there is not really a need to copyright them. Most publishing houses don't even talk with people they don't know. When they do interact with people, they want copyrighted songs more to protect THEM from the claim that they somehow stole the song idea. A reputable publishing house wants good songs but they are not in the ripping business. One bad rumor and they are out of business in a business that is based largely on trust.
 
Just my 2 cents on why I don't use LOC .... but I still protect, and I still us the copyright symbol or notice on all my stuff. My publishers and libraries all handle the LOC registration when I sign the rights to my songs over to them.
 
In the end, YOU have to determine the level of safety that allows you to sleep at night..... but please do not use the "mail it to yourself" method and think it's good.
2013/07/07 11:31:28
jimusic
AT
No, you already have the copyright when you created it.
 
...(providing you are in the US)...is to send the whole thing at once to the copyright office. 

This is not limited to just the US, even though the LOC is in Washington, DC.
 
I'm in Canada and have 2 works registered there for about 20 years now, which are actual copies of my sheet music of the melodies & chords I painstakingly wrote out by hand - [instrumentals].  
 
Now there are better, faster, easier methods, of course.


I will be submitting more works later this year, although I read that one post about SONGUARD with interest, and will investigate some more.
 
I do want to mention that although seemingly rare, the cost of going to court to 'prove' that that song is yours can be a staggering $20,000-50,000, AND the onus is on YOU to prove the theft.
 
One of the stipulations is: You would have to prove that *they* [whoever that is], had access to your works in the first place.
 
Now that could be tough - real tough!
 
Short of following them around and outright stalking their every move, [all based on the assumption that they will indeed do that to you some day in the future], it would best to keep records of where & when AND particularly to whom your works were sent.
 
Even then, there's no guarantee. 
 
The advantage is clearly with the thief - as usual.
 
Possession is indeed 9/10ths here, at least in cases like these.
 
The more protection, the better, as a settlement out of court may be more appealing to the other party if you're well armed and your lawyer has lot's of Ammo to fire at them to begin with.
 
Certainly the costs would be much less to prepare ahead of time with various methods of Copyright Protection - kind of like insurance - you may never need it, but glad to have it when you do.
..................................... 
Hey - look at my post count!
 
It's 4:20 here - finally!! 
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