• SONAR
  • difference between in focus and selected (p.2)
2012/11/03 07:14:46
wr
Using "focus" in this way isn't just a Cakewalk thing, so don't blame them - it's a general computing term.  There's even a Wikipedia entry about it.
2012/11/03 13:44:21
gswitz
I can see reasons for two types of focus... selection and focus...

It's hard for me when I can't anticipate the behavior. If I expect to change a parameter on one track and I change it on two, or another, that's confusing.

So, if I could get defined exactly what to expect, I think I could get used to it.
2012/11/03 13:51:45
Beepster
Just make sure when doing stuff to a track that the blue button isn't active on other tracks. Even then for most things you'd have to be holding the control key to make the adjustment apply to other tracks. As I mentioned before I've actually started using the "Lock" function on tracks I am not currently working on to avoid making unwanted changes to accidentally "selected" tracks.

Also I'm pretty sure you can only have one track in "Focus" at a time so that should not cause those types of issues. Cheers.
2012/11/03 14:17:09
gswitz
Beepster, I've gotta believe that the software designers didn't expect us to lock and unlock trax as we used them. This is a lot of work to protect from unexpected behavior. While I recognize that it is getting you through a rough patch as an early adopter, I would like to learn how the developers saw it being used.
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Focus is defined by the track number turning light blue background.
Selection is defined by vertical colored bar to the left of the track. Selected track has a bold color where unselected has a faded color.
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Right now, I select a track by clicking the number. With auto zoom off, I kinda get the behavior I'm used to. If I click to add a node to an envelope in another track, the focus and selection moves to that track.

Turn Auto zoom on, set the focus on track one, by clicking the number 1, add a node to the envelope of track 2. Rather than shifting the 'focus' and 'selection' to track 2 (as with auto zoom off), it expands the focus to tracks one and two. Selection is still just track 1.  Now, add a node to the envelope of track 3. Track 2 loses selection and track 3 gains it; track 1 remains selected (unchanged). You can range select across tracks two and three to set the Focus only on tracks 2 and 3, while selection is still track 1.

When I say that track 1 remains selected, I mean that the track's details are defined in the current inspector.

Selecting a region of any track moves the focus to that track but not the selection (when using auto zoom).

So, I need a lesson in this. Someone has put a great deal of thought into how it will work. FBB points out that you can float the inspector and lock it by clicking the track name at the bottom of the inspector and choosing 'lock the current track or bus'. Now, we can change the selected track without changing the track in the track inspector (where are our key strokes going?). A quick test shows Alt+M mutes the selected track, not the track in the locked inspector.

I believe we are not allowed multiple Track Inspectors. That is called the Console View. :-)

So...

Why all this fanciness? How will we whip through these differences in 5 years? How would we explain it to a newbie (us now)?
I would like to see it broken down what things occur to what tracks...
Copy applies to Focus...
Split Applies to (focus but not selection unless selection also has the focus)...
Paste...
Alt+M, Alt+R etc go to focus but this seems buggy. Set selection on track 1 and focus on tracks 2 and 3 by range selecting clips in 2 and 3. Alt+R and M can be turned on but not off. Select Mute by clicking the M on the selected track (1) and now alt M will toggle mute on tracks 2 and 3 only. Click the Record Icon on track 1 and Alt+R now toggles record on tracks 2 and 3 only. If you turn them off on the selected track, is possible to toggle them on for the focused tracks but not off.
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Where does scroll wheel go and when. I ask this because I have been surprised to see pro channel gains rolled on tracks I didn't expect and I suspect my scroll wheel.
2012/11/03 14:41:58
Beepster
Hmm... I really haven't noticed much difference between X1 and X2 as far as Focus and Select. Just that weird bug. Mind you I'm only doing relatively basic stuff so maybe it gets weirder with automation. However I think what you are asking would be a really large list for both functions. They are pretty much one of the most imperative ways of accessing... well almost everything relating to the tracks.

Sorry... I know that's not much help. All I can say is just keep referencing the manuals and tuts and play around with all the menus and sub menus and Inspector with "Select" active and inactive. I think it's just one of those things where the more you do stuff the more things become clearer. I wish Sonar wasn't so darned confusing but I'm not sure what they could do to make it less so. Nuendo never seemed to give me such mental strains but I also wasn't being nearly as adventurous as I am with Sonar. Meh.

Cheers.
2013/07/05 15:56:36
soens
gswitz
Focus is defined by the track number turning light blue background.
Selection is defined by vertical colored bar to the left of the track. Selected track has a bold color where unselected has a faded color. 


Old thread, I know. But it came up in a search and I realized you have it backwards.
 
In Focus = Clicking on a track making it a lighter color gray.
 
Selecting = The Track Number box turns Blue.
 
Interestingly a track does not have to be in focus to adjust its controls.
2013/07/06 08:41:15
gswitz
Soens, thanks for posting on the thread. This whole thing has continued to cause me confusion and I would say has been my hardest thing to learn to deal with in X2. I still sometimes hover in the wrong place and move the mouse wheel to scroll up or down a list of tracks and inadvertently change the level of some Selected track that is out of focus.
 
In my terminology, the Selected track is the one with the Orange Bar on the left side. There is only ever one of these. There can be lots of blue lights.
 
So, I think if I really worked at it I could come up with a 'How it works' by demonstration. I would still prefer that Sonar did it in the Help Documentation and specified the WHY as well.
 
I suspect there is an architectural reason for the change. The negative side effect is that I, as end user, can be hovering over parameters and tracks and clicking buttons I think will impact those tracks (maybe mute or solo keyboard strokes or a scroll wheel spin) and those changes are routed to a 'Selected Track' that I'm not looking at and not aware of. In a way, you kinda end up corrupting your project accidentally and unknowingly.
 
Things like, 'to scroll up and down your track list in Track View, be sure to hover over the tracks on the left and not over the wave forms' is important to know. If you hover in the wrong place and spin your scroll wheel -- nothing happens -- do you know if you just changed some arbitrary parameter that last had focus?
2013/07/06 08:51:32
gswitz
soens
Interestingly a track does not have to be in focus to adjust its controls.

Precisely! A track is usually 'Selected' to be the target of keyboard control changes. When you are working a lot with the automation envelopes, you can change Focus without changing 'Selected'.
 
I honestly believe that this is a very complicated and changed piece of the software. I think it is underestimated by most users as a potential culprit for confusion and is often the reason for what get called 'bugs'.
 
Frankly, if the software is so confusing that experienced heavy users don't figure out how it works, that's a bug in my book whether it's to functional specification or not.
 
The first place that Sonar should go on this is to clearly educate it's heavy user base on how it works and why it works this way now. Caution should be raised to all user so that they understand to look for the orange bar before sending shortcut commands to the track they have their eyes focused on.
2013/07/06 08:53:33
Beepster
I've never clicked a button or changed a parameter on a track and had that change applied to another track (unless of course I'm holding Ctrl, or they're grouped/linked). Something isn't right there. Very strange.
 
As far as scrolling and having the cursor hook into faders and knobs accidentally... I freaking hate that. It has happened to me very often in the Console View just when I think I've got my levels sounding good and then WHAMMO the fader gets turned all the way up blasting out my ears or less obnoxious all the way down but then I still lose my setting. Very annoying. I rarely use mousescroll anymore because of it (and the fact the scroll bar on my trackball has stopped working reliably). I just use the on screen scrollbars. Annoying but less annoying than accidentally screwing up my mix. I have to start getting into the habit of "locking" my faders and stuff. I forget how to do it now but there is a function where once you have things sounding good you do some voodoo spell on the parameter and then if you move that parameter you can double click it and it will return to the setting you locked it at instead of the default.
 
 
2013/07/06 09:00:07
Beepster
Oh... if you are referring to keybindings, not mouse commands, then yes, I could see how a keystroke could change a track unintentionally.
 
That is why I constantly make use of the Ctrl + Shift + A command. If I'm about to make a change of pretty much any kind that isn't directly related to what I was already doing I hit that binding to clear any selections on or offscreen. That way I KNOW whatever I do is going to be limited to the track I next touch or any selection/quick groups I make. Seriously I hit that binding every 30 seconds or so if I'm doing lots of editing or other stuff that involves selections.
 
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