dubdisciple

spacey
 
If Sony did focus on Vegas as a full blown DAW they'd deliver a deadly blow to many...not sure who
would survive that.
 

As a long time user of Sonic Foundry/ Sony Products, i would say that's not likely and even if they did the chance of success is not as high as you would think.  Sony has already failed in the DAW department.  Acid was great (and I still use it at times for certain things), but Sony never quite figured a way to move it forward.  Thus Vegas, Acid and Sound Forge are basically using the same audio technology Sonic Foundry developed over ten years ago with very minor changes.  The core effects in all three programs are still the old FX 1, 2 and three, Wave Hammer, Acoustic Mirror and Noise Reduction that they used to sell as stand alone DX plugins over 10 years ago.  The only additions have been third party.  It's a testament to Sonic Foundry that these effects have stood the test of time (although Acoustic mirror is ridiculously slow), but Sony not only has failed to move audio features forward significantly, but seem content to let these products lay stagnant.  I have little faith Sony has the vision or desire to produce a full fledged DAW.  Have you ever used Midi in Acid?   
 
Don't let the fact that Vegas has outstanding audio for a video editor lull you into thinking Sony can create a great DAW.  The audio features were simply inherited from Sonic Foundry's decision to build a video editor on top of a great, but somewhat dated audio engine.  Sony's superiority to other video editor's is somewhat deceiving because most higher end video projects handle almost every aspect of video/film production in separate applications.  You will not find Hollywood pipelines where the editor and sound guy are one and the same.  This works in Vegas' favor in lower end productions.  I love Vegas and have used it for one man jobs i need to do quickly.  Yet, for critical work, I am more than likely editing in another program and mixing sound in another.  Vegas fills an important niche but will llikely never be a DAW.

Well you could have just said you didn't agree rather than suggesting that I'm fooling myself. 
I say they haven't been focused on audio/midi and then you ramble on supporting the statement.
 
And who are you to say what Sony could or couldn't do with audio/midi editing if they decided to be a serious contender?  (I don't think they will either...been using their stuff for years and hoping but I don't see it happening.)
Do you really think that I would doubt their capabilities on your post? Sorry, no offense but....not today.
 
I can imagine them offering an audio/midi/video editing setup, if they chose to do so, much more than I could imagine Cakewalk offering video editing with....whatever.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

I have been using sonar since version 5. I am convinced it will not survive without a major rewrite. The more releases I update to, the less stable it has become for me, even with computer upgrade.
The survivor for me will be the most efficient and functional with all the latest features. The best I have tried is Presonus Studio One. I have never been able to do everything on the fly with no glitches or hiccups in Sonar. Studio one is a very young DAW, but has already overtaken most of the old faves.
 

grupps
I have been using sonar since version 5. I am convinced it will not survive without a major rewrite. The more releases I update to, the less stable it has become for me, even with computer upgrade.
 

I agree.  I keep looking for Sonar X2b.
 
They probably need to clean up the code.  If I were running a commercial studio, I'd be using Sonar 8.5 or another DAW (I skipped X1).  There's just too many issues w X2.  Just yesterday it crashed twice.
 

grupps
Studio one is a very young DAW, but has already overtaken most of the old faves.
 

I'd like to see evidence of that.  I checked out it's user forum and there's very little discussion going on.  Now Reaper on the other hand seems to have a very involved user base.  It rivals this forum, which is impressive.

spacey
 
If Sony did focus on Vegas as a full blown DAW they'd deliver a deadly blow to many...not sure who
would survive that.
 

And funnily enough, Vegas did start its life as a DAW in the late 90s. It was very impressive and had many of the things I and others wanted to see in Cakewalk Pro Audio. Contrarily to what's been suggested in another post by someone else, Vegas isn't simply Sound Forge/Acid with Video added to it. That's really not what it was intended to be in the first place.
 
http://www.soundonsound.c...9/articles/sfvegas.htm

spacey...sorry you took such offense.  None was intended, but that's the nature of onscreen text.  Did not mean to imply you were foolish either for thinking so. For all i know Atari could start making music based pcs again and blow everybody out the water.  Stranger things have happened.  I guess I could have just summed it up by saying that Sony has shown no commitment to improving the base the inherited and the small attempts they have made have all fallen flat.  Based on that, I don't see them blowing anybody out the water.
 
Rain, was not suggesting Vegas is simply Acid/ Sound Forge with video.  Vegas has grown much more than either program but the audio base has not changed much over the years once it became a video product. Vegas was designed more to compete with  programs like Samplitude and Nuendo than with Cubase, Logic or Sonar.   Acid started it's own special niche and then attempted to morph into full fledged DAW once other DAWs incorporated most of Acid's features.  Like I said, i love Vegas but  have no basis to think they could make a decent DAW.  I know I could be wrong.  I certainly did not think Presonus would make a decent DAW and they did.

dubdisciple...I too apologize for any negativity, not what I like to be part of. (it takes two)
 
We all just want a great system for whatever reasons - hobby or pro work. I think it'll happen.
Somebody will get it all sorted out...maybe. ;) 
Well as long as I have the means to keep playing the game it's at the least a fun game most of the time.
Step up and place your bet.
 
 
 

The ones that listen to their customers.

wizard71
The ones that listen to their customers.

 
 
A bit like 'The Homer'
 

 

SteveStrummerUK

wizard71
The ones that listen to their customers.

 
 
A bit like 'The Homer'
 

 

Exactly.  If the customers were so smart, they would already have built the perfect DAW themselves.  It is important to listen to the the customer's pain points and what their aspirations are.  But never take feature suggestions literally.  That is a sure way to go under.  The successful supplier has a broader vision that is able to integrate those aspirations from many different customers into a solution that is seamless and intuitive.  I think Cakewalk has done a really good job of the strategic stuff.  It does seem there are some bug issues.  But part of that is unavoidable when one makes a strategy of trying to support many OS levels, both 32- and 64-bit, many different VSTs, many different audio IFs, many different control surfaces, etc.
 
That is a strategic decision and as long as that is their strategy, there will be a certain level of crashes and instability.  It is a conscious trade-off they make for a wider customer base (wider revenue base) at the possible expense of their reputation in the market.  My sense of it is that sequencers, and then the early DAWs were mostly the domain of professional musicians and mostly technically savvy enthusiasts.  But now the DAW world is reaching a much wider audience, including a lot of non-musicians who find they can create stuff that sounds roughly like music without any real knowledge.  While this market expansion is a revenue opportunity, it also exposes a product to much less technical users.  That may be part of what will be driving the shakeout in the coming years.

I'm not so sure ProTools is going to survive long term. How much new blood are they getting? The big studios tend to stick with older versions "forever" and let's face it, the big studios are closing up faster than you can say iLok.
Avid's stock price has been on a dive and while it's leveled out it's in the crapper.
Avid seems to be ignoring the smaller studios who aren't going to be buying Avid hardware so those users are using not only ProTools but other DAW software in conjunction.
 
As for the others, who knows?
 
Cubase will probably be developed forever because of Yamaha and the fact that they have a huge install base, especially in Europe.
Reaper will survive due to the business model.
 
My money for the sleeper DAW is on Studio One. It's still developing but is attracting a lot of new users who are looking for something different that does what it promises well rather than promising the kitchen sink and not delivering.
 
Personally I can, and do use, any of these programs so it's really a moot point for me.
I suspect it's the same for most people.