• SONAR
  • Which DAWs do you think will be the survivors? (p.8)
2013/07/04 10:24:50
Dave Modisette
wormser
My money for the sleeper DAW is on Studio One. It's still developing but is attracting a lot of new users who are looking for something different that does what it promises well rather than promising the kitchen sink and not delivering.

+1  I'm now using Studio One 2.5.2 because it seems to be happy with my legacy hardware and my Waves, Slate and UAD plugins.  Theres's a lot of similarities to SONAR but it lacks the stuff in SONAR that seems to get in my way.
2013/07/04 11:24:43
dubdisciple
I agree that it's no slam dunk that Pro Tools will retain dominance. They have good chances simply because they are so entrenched but we have seen many companies go from dominant to "my kid has no idea who that company is". Remember when Netscape was the browser to have?  Remember when Real Player dominated most streaming audio?  Someone has already mentioned Gigastudio.  IBM once dominated the PC market so that I still know older people who refer to windows PC as "IBM compatible".  The only current software I own that seem to have absolutely no real competition now or foreseeable future is Photoshop.  They absolutely crushed the competition to the point that they can sit back and dabble in things like 3d integration and other bloat.
2013/07/04 11:30:31
dubdisciple
spacey...btw i hope I am dead wrong about Sony.  I have been somewhat frustrated by their lack of updates.  i skipped Acid 7, although i do have occasional uses for Acid 6.  Still waiting for 64-bit Sound Forge.  I stopped upgrading my Vegas once I started working at facilities that relied on Avid and Premiere.  I would absolutely love a version of Vegas that combines the stability and ease of use of the current model with a more full featured DAW approach.
2013/07/04 11:57:34
spacey
dubdisciple
spacey...btw i hope I am dead wrong about Sony.  I have been somewhat frustrated by their lack of updates.  i skipped Acid 7, although i do have occasional uses for Acid 6.  Still waiting for 64-bit Sound Forge.  I stopped upgrading my Vegas once I started working at facilities that relied on Avid and Premiere.  I would absolutely love a version of Vegas that combines the stability and ease of use of the current model with a more full featured DAW approach.


I don't think you are. I don't understand why they don't IF I'm right thinking that they have the resources to do whatever they wanted to...it does seem they do. But I waited a long time on them to make a show and zip. I don't think they care about audio/midi editing...but sure would like to see what they'd do.
I updated  Vegas Pro 12 from 8.1 (DVD Arch. 6) and best I recall it was out about the same time as I got X2a on-line and they've released 2 or 3 updates to date.
 
I really don't mind and like having different programs to use and don't really care who sold them as long as they "fit" my needs. I'm just surprised that (as far as I know and my wallet allows for this hobby) that nobody has focused on a  complete package.
It also seems to me that progression in (consumer) video editing has blown away audio/midi ...at least
in what can be done and without all the problems. I think we agree on who has done that too.
 
My hopes are that Cake is fixing to show not only us but many others how good a recording program can be. There were many things changing when they needed to make a move from 8. and now that they've had a good test run and many of the  changes are past I wouldn't be surprised if they've fine tuned it and have it polished for the next run. Naturally there will be minor adjustments after the initial run but I think they have what it takes. I have for a long time. Maybe it won't be long and we'll see.
 
 
 
2013/07/04 12:55:15
dubdisciple
One thing I always found odd about Sony is that they never incorporated the excellent Oxford plugins into their products and never seemed willing to recode the products they acquired.  Even Adobe realized that the only way they were going to expand off of their Cool Edit acquisition was to recode from the ground up so that it could be cross-platform.  There is debate whether the changes are for the better but I give them credit for not staying stagnant.  They also are not apologetic about incorporating features from acquired products into other products. I'm hoping more crossover between Roland and Cakrewalk.  R-mix Sonar has actually grown on me.
2013/07/04 13:04:25
wormser
dubdisciple
One thing I always found odd about Sony is that they never incorporated the excellent Oxford plugins into their products and never seemed willing to recode the products they acquired.  



I've wondered that myself. Instead Sony included a watered down version of oZone which is nice but I think Oxford are superior overall. 
 
As for CoolEdit, personally I think that Adobe ruined it. Sure it has tons of features but it's really bloated IMHO.  Cooledit's appeal was light and sweet and it did what was asked of it. The Adobe versions have screens that are so cluttered it's hard to work IMHO.
 
Of course the newer versions have many more features which is what people seem to be asking for.
 
 
2013/07/04 13:17:35
dubdisciple
wormser..there is no doubt in my mind that  they chose to target newer features at people working with audio for video, while continuing to cater to the strong radio and voice over base that Cool Edit already had.  They dropped the awkward attempts at midi and VSTi implentation and increased noise reduction and synch features.  They also made it easier to use in conjunction with other Adobe products. 
2013/07/04 13:36:47
cparmerlee
wormser
As for CoolEdit, personally I think that Adobe ruined it. Sure it has tons of features but it's really bloated IMHO.  Cooledit's appeal was light and sweet and it did what was asked of it. The Adobe versions have screens that are so cluttered it's hard to work IMHO.

Admittedly there is a lot of overlap, but I wouldn't call programs like CoolEdit and Audacity DAWs.  To me, a DAW has at least this minimum set of features:
 
  • Seamlessly works with recorded audio, MIDI and in-board software synthesizers.
  • Supports an arbitrarily large number of tracks
  • Includes some open architecture for incorporating effects and synthesizers of the user's choosing, and allows the user to control the order in which effects are applied.
  • Applies the effects in real time for interactive setting of parameters, without modifying the underlying WAV or MIDI file
  • Allows a flexible definition of buses that goes well beyond a stereo main.
  • Does routing internally, and also allows routing through hardware processors via an audio interface.
  • Can record an arbitrarily large number of audio tracks simultaneously, limited only by the available audio interfaces and computer processing power.
  • Includes a MIDI editor that allows you to adjust all the major properties of notes.
  • Supports stretchable loops of audio or MIDI, and has a consistent UI for dealing with either
  • Includes support for auto-punching and handling multiple takes.
  • Supports automation of faders, pan and all the major properties of any of the effects or synthesizer settings.
That is probably not everything, but it is a pretty good starter list, I think.  There can certainly be other audio editors that do a smaller set of tasks well, but I wouldn't call them DAWs.
 
And I would humbly suggest that 7 years from now, the list of essential platform features will not be much longer.  What will happen in these years, is that the implementations of each of those bullet points will be improved to make them more intuitive, reliable and effective.  And beyond that, the real action will be in the effects libraries.  A company can certainly have a strategy of bundling effects into the platform purchase, but this will become increasingly transparent, as more of a marketing tactic, like supplying the TruePianos with only one set of samples.  That is a marketing gimmick to try to get you to purchase more add-ons, not real value in the platform.
2013/07/04 13:36:52
wormser
dubdisciple
wormser..there is no doubt in my mind that  they chose to target newer features at people working with audio for video, while continuing to cater to the strong radio and voice over base that Cool Edit already had.  They dropped the awkward attempts at midi and VSTi implentation and increased noise reduction and synch features.  They also made it easier to use in conjunction with other Adobe products. 




Yea I agree.
 
It seems that Apple is doing something similar with their new Macs aka the trashcans.
They appear to be targeting the video production crowd big time.
 
 
2013/07/04 19:25:56
6stringsat100mph
I've only read the first page and am going to continue on but since several of you have mentioned Digital Performer being Mac only I will submit that this is not the case anymore. They opened up with version 8 to windows and support 32 and 64 right out the gate. I downloaded a trial of it and having such an alien workflow than what I am use to I didn't mess with it too much past the first week, then deleted it. If this has already been mentioned, please forgive my haste to make this point before fully reading the thread.
 
In response to the thread itself? I have no clue. I do, however wholeheartedly agree that the over abundance of DAW packages on the market today are going to start being gobbled up and left to die by whomever really wants to spend the money to ensure a future. So my comments have come full circle to what I think many have eluded to; Things can change over night in software but people will always want the core features that enable them to get the job done. In the end this loyalty we speak of and the cult like followers that support them will rather quickly abandon that same company once support and updates stop coming or attention becomes focused elsewhere. (think avid and m-audio) Loyalty is a day to day luxury that can change in the blink of an eye. My personal belief is that Steinberg has such a dominant role in the recording world with both of their game changing VST and ASIO contributions that they will not be disappearing any time soon. 
Pro Tools and DP are safe bet to make it through the great DAW die off that will commence at any time in the near future.
 
Lets flip this just a smidgen, who will be the first ones to get a funeral? My guess is the piddly little guys such as energyXT, Orion, Mixmeister and the Native Instruments abomination "Tracktion"  will be gone within a years time. Magix and the like will be soon after. My opinion of course.
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