Bapu,  I should have said most non-anal engineers ;-)
 
Besides, nothing could ruin your bass playing ... could it?
 
@

I am of the opinion that you should always try to do everything to the best of your ability, whether others notice or not. For one thing, your ability grows and gets better, the more you strive for.

Bit-once again you hit the nail on the head. Art is mainly appreciated by artist. We (the artists) don't do what we do for the masses we do it for ourselves. if we get approval, thats just a bonus. Music is a cheap commodity. Asked someone on the elevator or in grocery store how they like the song playing (the Bach concerto) and they'll respond...."it's OK"-but ask the artist and they gush over the details, the emotions, the life in it.
I wrestle over the snap of the snare, the definition in the acoustic guitar, the 2db cut in the vocal. I invite the friends (non-artist) in my perfectly tuned studio-seat them in the sweet spot between VERY expensive studio monitors-I'm behind them weeping because of the beauty in the mix and they say..."It's OK"....IF they buy the CD that took 18 months to write , record, master and manufacture-they (the masses) listen to it once -twice if the REALLY like it..
Go figure.....why do we do it? Artist create, we can't stop. I have to obsess over the tail on the reverb-And NO ONE will notice -except you Bitflipper

bitflipper
 
 
It's the cumulative effect of many little details that results in a quality mix.
 

+1

MakeShift
I am of the opinion that you should always try to do everything to the best of your ability, whether others notice or not. For one thing, your ability grows and gets better, the more you strive for.

+1

Pastorbelvedere
Go figure.....why do we do it? Artist create, we can't stop. 

This is true of anyone who takes their craft seriously.
It's the extra 50% effort to yield an extra 10% result.
When I was plumbing, I beveled the inside of the pipe ends so the water wouldn't whistle. The solder joints were clean. Nobody would ever see them, but if my work was transparent, I did my job.
I once knew a welder that laid down the most beautiful bead you have ever seen. He was an inspiration to me.
Master your craft. People may not know why it sounds good. That doesn't matter.
If you gave it your all, you know why it sounds good. That does matter.

Actuaully I think this kind of reasoning is why toontrack's EZMIX was created. I can see where, even myself, get into a new song creation and then when it's half way done I start marching down the long road of mixing/and tweaking and then the tune never gets finished. I do have to admit that throwing a few exmix presets on the drums and vocals can make a tune sound way more polished than just leaving everything dry. It's a quick way to start evaluating a mix and it keeps me in the song writing zone.
You have to consider what is the final destination of the tune. Is it something that is going to be released to the public? Then mix and produce the crap out if it. If it's just a rough draft or something that you may be handing off as a demo to band members, then do a quick mix and call it a day.
 
Let the toontrack preset bashing begin!!!
 

I lurves EZMix (as well as EZKeys).
 
Since I'll never be a Danny Danzi I'm happy to use EZMix presets if they serve my purpose.
 
That's not to say I use them all the time. I gravitate to them when I'm struggling too long with conventional tools.
 

bapu
I lurves EZMix (as well as EZKeys).
 
Since I'll never be a Danny Danzi I'm happy to use EZMix presets if they serve my purpose.
 
That's not to say I use them all the time. I gravitate to them when I'm struggling too long with conventional tools.
 

LOL and you should thank God for that brother because it's a blessing and a curse being me....and sometimes, the curse outweighs the blessing. Then again, the good side of it is....when you do this for a long time, the things you might think I pay close attention to are not so.
 
They just leap out at you when you know when and how to listen to something. I don't have to stay focused on things anymore. I can just about have a normal conversation with you and listen to a piece of music without losing details. I'll stop the playback if something stands out and tell you to hold that thought a minute to see for sure. LOL!
 
At the end of the day, details and doing all the things we do within a mix come natural over time like anything else in life that you may need a schedule for at first. Ever start a new job and use a check list? Ever use a check list or "order" so to speak for Sonar?
 
Stuff like that starts to burn into your head over time to where it becomes a part of who you are as a listener as well as an engineer and an artist.
 
As for little details....each good thing you add to a mix makes the percentage go up. For example, if you use a really junky mic pre and have old radio shack cables in your studio, new cables may make a 3% difference, the mic pre may make a 5% difference.
 
Add them up you made a near 10% difference for the better. Add in a new mic and you added another 3%. These things are sometimes subtle, other times obvious...and yet other times, obvious when grouped together.
 
The main thing to consider is whether or not the things you worry about detail wise, are done correctly. To assume that a mastering engineer would degrade your mix full of details would be incorrect IF the M.E. knew what he was doing.
 
I can tell you I've never mastered anything and degraded it. Ozone is a different story because in my opinion, though it is good for what I like to call "little m mastering" I also feel it skewers mixes to the point of degradation if you're not careful.
 
You should always pay attention to details and take pride in your work no matter how good or bad you are. Who cares what people think as well as what they decide to listen on. When I listen to stuff I've done for clients as well as my own stuff, I could care less how it sounds on earbuds really. I mix for how it sounds on speakers that are bigger than an inch. If someone feels inclined to not have a great listening experience due to the media they choose to listen on, that's fine and is really their loss in the long run.
 
Granted, I DO try and listen to my stuff on various sound sources but I'd never make a decision based on ear buds or a mono cell phone. When you start compensating for that, you're allowing the world to dictate your art as well as the moves you make. You can't control what the masses will listen on any more than you can stop them from turning up the bass eq on a perfectly mixed/mastered song because they want to hear that bass rattle their bile ducts. Do for you and allow the world to praise you if you're ever blessed enough to be in that situation.
 
-Danny

I find a lot of agreement with the overall sentiments of this thread.  As a new (serious) SONAR Producer user (serious to the extent that I'm investing the effort to have some competency in the product,) I am in the process of wading through all the loops, effects, and synthesizers.  It is my distinct impression that about 95% of this is just funny sounds, and nothing I could ever use to help improve the quality of results.  But that other 5% is really powerful.
 
This process has also convinced me that a great majority of the music that is being produced today (in the statistical sense, not in the sense of what the biggest names are doing) has minimal involvement of competent musicians.  In particular all this canned looping is the core of a lot of the hiphop that is happening, and that skill set consists mainly of just dragging loops around until one finds a groove that sounds cool.  I believe that is a real setback for the art of musicianship, to say nothing of the impact this must all have on working musicians and professional studios.  In other words, if a person can, in 5 minutes, crank out some jams that are about 90% as good as what you could get by hiring professional musicians, arrangers, and producers, that really takes the incentive away from using real musicians.
 
It is what it is.  I can't blame the DAW suppliers for giving the people what they want.  But I do find it  struggle to keep searching for the 5% that is actually pertinent to making high quality music.  I guess some people must want that 95% and therefore they are helping pay for the 5% I find useful, so I can't complain.  And that's how I would suggest looking a the way-too-subtle-for-most-ears gadgets.  Just ignore them and move on to the stuff that makes a real difference.