brconflict
 
I wouldn't ignore that, but if I'm not ready for X3's features (as I wasn't ready for Take Lanes in X2), I'd still like to get a patch for X2 in the meantime. When X3 comes out, which I'm guessing is probably next, why can't Cakewalk offer a patch for X2 at the same time? Surely those fixes can be separated? Thanks!

 
Yes, it is all about regular and frequent bug fixing releases. 

Cakewalk has for decades ignored the requests, pleas and downright begging by a significant section its of customers.  They have refused to implement even the slightest real improvement to the staff view.  In this respect they have made a strategic decision to ignore a portion of their customer base.  This is the reason I am moving to Cubase 7 even though I have been with Cakewalk loyally since the early '90s.   I have finally realized my loyalty has been misguided.

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
We get countless complaints about them but in the fairness of discussion we leave them up. You do know that a lot of other companies delete those threads :)
 
We can't comment at this time. Asking this question 10 different ways 

I do not write complains, but suggestions. I think that there is simple and easy solution:
 
1) Make "Feature request" section on forum with voting system.
2) Make moderated "Issue report" section with Solved/Unsolved marks.
3) publish more frequently bug fixing releases.
 

I believe after seeing all the replies I can conclude we are in for a long wait before all the extra features can be fully exploited in Sonar.
As for Ryan, Thank you very much for coming on the forum and giving up valuable time to at least say something. I found your replies to be very forthcoming concidering what you can actually say. 
I also believe that your replies will help a few more people on the forum. The misunderstandings will still be here, but at least there was some kind of reply that we will have to accept.
I haven't got the money to call support every time from Holland.
As far as your statement that many users don't report problems with Sonar is because a number of people have already reported them and have said that on the forum. I dont have the feeling that people would LIE about submitting a report.
I also believe that with a full time "Bakers"job and your parttime gigs that we are going to have to accept that it's going to take a little longer to get where we would like to be.
 
Once again I would like to thank you for coming out of your busy schedule to communicate with Us.
 
High Regards
 
Danny

ekral

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
We get countless complaints about them but in the fairness of discussion we leave them up. You do know that a lot of other companies delete those threads :)
 
We can't comment at this time. Asking this question 10 different ways 

I do not write complains, but suggestions. I think that there is simple and easy solution:
 
1) Make "Feature request" section on forum with voting system.
2) Make moderated "Issue report" section with Solved/Unsolved marks.
3) publish more frequently bug fixing releases.
 

Thanks. Appreciate the suggestions. 

No matter how well we articulate the one core issue, over and over, it's still being belittling by people defending the wrong issue!!
 
We are not asking about what is going on in the lab, X3 features, what special plans Cakewalk has, what is "next" for Sonar, etc.
 
We are adults. We understand certain things are private business.  They can take all the time they want, in private, to work on new goodies.  The issue is with the product in hand, and the fact that the company we bought it from has not said a word about its CURRENT STATUS since 2012.
 
A maintenance update, or its potential to exist in the future, should not be classified information.  If you believe otherwise, then we fundamentally differ on this subject.

ekral
The SW industry has changed a lot. Ryan, if you are working on bug fixes, where are the bug fixing releases? I think that lot of people just expected something like this:
 
REAPER Pre-Release Discussion
Reaper Issue Tracker
or this:
Cubase 7 Issues
 
 

We have an very in depth bug tracking system internally where our Product Managers and Developers can prioritize such things. It's actually quite cool and very efficient.
 
We have a mechanism on our site for users to report such issues to us as well. We'll confirm if it's a legitimate bug or not and notify end users of the facts. I'm sure most of you are aware of it. It's here: http://www.cakewalk.com/support/contact/problemreport.aspx
 
After that, we migrate things into our internal system.
 
The forum has never been a place for us to track bugs. Quite frankly, we'd never get anything done. From the inside looking out, it's the most unorganized solution to it possible. No offense, but bug tracking is supposed to be based purely on facts and as clear and concise as possible, not based on long conversations on discussions boards. It's very difficult to support people on user forums, there's a lot of inaccurate information and people who tend to side rail the conversation. 
 
I truly feel for the folks at Steinberg and Cockos having to maintain those lists. Personally, I prefer to focus on the bugs versus maintaining the lists. If you guys encounter problems, definitely let us know, but let us handle the annoying part of bug tracking and fixing things. That's on us. When we do fix bugs and the fixes are available in updates/new versions/whatever... we always go through the lists and notify customers of the change.
 
With that being said, I do think the internet has changed a lot and that there are good ways of improving upon this. I just don't necessarily think it's discussion board based. I'll have to toy around with some of those ideas though as they all involve updating the Problem Reporter (which is always in need of some updating ;)
 
As you can tell, we have to prioritize certain things. The forum software was one of the big things on my particular list.
 

brconflict
Ryan,
   Thanks for chiming in. Always appreciated to at least see someone address concerns such as these. I do have a few questions/comments, though, and hopefully won't ostracize myself from credibility I might have as a CW customer:
 
You mentioned that you're very aware of issues and that this forum is not to be used for direct support. I would beg that if you peruse Steinberg's forums, you'll see, not only are they very well laid out, but it's frequent that engineers or support staff will go through the forums and make suggestions that seems to be helpful, or at least say something like, "I'll take a look at that. Can you try [this] and tell me what happens?", or "That's a known bug in version x.x.x." It may not be as efficient as what Cakewalk does, but I really love their way (I own Wavelab for Mastering, so I'm there frequently).
 
It's ok if Cakewalk is stern about how they should be contacted regarding bugs, support calls, etc, but would Cakewalk either consider 24/7 support, or rethink working with us in the forums? Not all of us do this for a living, and we have daytime jobs, too. Many studios operate late night and on weekends. I'd pay for support to get those hours like I do with Waves, but it's not even an option here.
 
When reporting bugs, when/if there's any movement, I don't see it for at least 1-2 month(s). Any time I get a response, it's for an issue I reported, but I couldn't remember for what half the time because of the length of time in silence.
 
My sincere apologies for being so blunt, but Cakewalk doesn't seem to get the picture, from my perspective.
 
Thanks!

We try to hop in when we can to the forum, but honestly we just get extremely busy at some points in time. It's not an excuse, just the honest answer. I know we do have spurts where we're in here a lot, and other times where we're not. I'd like to improve that relationship as well.

We did at one point in time offer 24/7 paid support (I'm definitely not doing it for free ;). Unfortunately it was incredibly unsuccessful. Nobody wanted to pay. We ran it for months and only sold a few cases. I'm not saying I'm opposed to reconsidering this effort at some point in the future, but one thing was for certain, it didn't work out well the last time we took a stab at it.

I don't see a lot of users jumping ship over to Cubase 7, and I also don't see cake losing customers.
matter of fact I see the same people on this forum usually on a daily basis.
 
what I do see is about 20-30 people with the same old story, someone starts a "cakewalk doesn't care thread"
and those same 20-30 users lick their chops and type away like its their life's calling.
patting each other on the back and sharing the in the pain.
while others here move upon their daily routine's using x2 successfully.
 
that's not to say there's not some of those 20-30 users who I believe to have real problems and who are actually very good people.
and want a patch to make their life's easier and there's nothing wrong that at all, I don't find that annoying.
what I do find annoying though is everyday a new post about x2, where's the patch?
but hey, your entitled to your opinions but there is such a thing as beating a dead horse in to submission.
 
im sure you all know how I feel on the matter, I wouldn't mind a patch myself, I find some things really annoying too.
but not so annoying to start a new post every day, when there's one already still active.
 
I don't think cake is going to give me an answer because I stomp my feet day after day. 

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
It's not realistic to expect us to communicate about product plans, road maps, or business plans. I understand the frustration but don't take the silence as a sign of something bad. FWIW, this kind of speculation has been happening for over a decade. It's nothing new. We are all hard at work and when we have something we can discuss, we'll definitely communicate that to our customers via our website, emails, and forums. 
 
I do want to stress that anyone having serious issues should always contact Cakewalk support directly. We are happy to help out and often times a quick call can resolve an issue. 
 
 

Andrew, Many already have reported issues and there is STILL NO X2b update mentioned or available for download. Come out with a statement about that and I can be swayed.

With that said, I know a lot of the older users who I have communicated with for many years are now switching to Cubase and Studio one. Since I do not use X2, I am seriously thinking about trying the other guys out. I still have 8.5 which works flawlessly though, so I am not in  hurry to crossgrade. I would like to use what I paid for as a loyal Cakewalk supporter and user, but I don't know how long that will last.

Studious
No matter how well we articulate the one core issue, over and over, it's still being belittling by people defending the wrong issue!!
 
We are not asking about what is going on in the lab, X3 features, what special plans Cakewalk has, what is "next" for Sonar, etc.
 
We are adults. We understand certain things are private business.  They can take all the time they want, in private, to work on new goodies.  The issue is with the product in hand, and the fact that the company we bought it from has not said a word about its CURRENT STATUS since 2012.
 
A maintenance update, or its potential to exist in the future, should not be classified information.  If you believe otherwise, then we fundamentally differ on this subject.

The issue is clear to me. You want to know when X2b is coming out. Right now, we don't have any information to announce. We have been collecting information and when we have news, we will definitely let you know. I know this may seem frustrating but I would rather tell you facts than plans or ideas.