Ok .. I know there's a hate following amongst composers and musicians for Band-In-A-Box/Jammer type things and I do have some sympathy with this. However, many people find them useful in various ways and so onto my question.

Which is the better, PG Music's Band-In-A-Box 2007 or SoundTreks's Jammer Pro 6? I imagine either would work well in Sonar Producer 6. Is there anyone here who has experience of both with Sonar who can advise.

I know there are trial version and I am looking at these but there is nothing better than advice from 'seasoned' experienced users of either or both.

With apologies to the musicians in the forums who find difficulty in tolerating these apps.

Thanks.

I've never used Jammer, but I have used Bandinabox, which I think can be useful in generating ideas, getting some creativity flowing. Also it makes decent drum tracks. I wouldn't really use it for much else. It does not integrate with Sonar. In order to create something with BIAB and then use it in Sonar you have to export it as a midi file through BIAB and then import it into Sonar and assign the midi tracks the the appropriate synths.

I use JAmmer as my goto tool for fleshing out a piece of music/song.
I always start working on a piece of music with acoustic guitar. I sort out the general feel of a piece with rhythm, tempo changes, vocal arrangement etc then set that up in Jammer.

Unfortunately it doesn't run inside SONAR as it is a standalone program.

To get it to work I use MIDI-OX to connect Jammer & SONAR so that SONAR runs as a slave device controlled by JAMMERs midi output. this is very easy to do and works well.

Once I have enough of the MIDI work set out like I want it. I just save the JAMMER file as a MIDI file and open that in SONAR, tweak any MIDI, bounce to audio and start on any real instruments, vocals etc.

Its a great creative tool and always gives me good ideas on where to go a with a particular piece of music I'm working on.

ORIGINAL: mudgel

I use JAmmer as my goto tool for fleshing out a piece of music/song.
I always start working on a piece of music with acoustic guitar. I sort out the general feel of a piece with rhythm, tempo changes, vocal arrangement etc then set that up in Jammer.

Unfortunately it doesn't run inside SONAR as it is a standalone program.

To get it to work I use MIDI-OX to connect Jammer & SONAR so that SONAR runs as a slave device controlled by JAMMERs midi output. this is very easy to do and works well.

Once I have enough of the MIDI work set out like I want it. I just save the JAMMER file as a MIDI file and open that in SONAR, tweak any MIDI, bounce to audio and start on any real instruments, vocals etc.

Its a great creative tool and always gives me good ideas on where to go a with a particular piece of music I'm working on.

Which version of Jammer do you use? I have an old version and see there are newer ones out there. I do think it could be a great tool for scratching out ideas. Sometimes a good bass line can make or break a song and I'm not a bass player, so having a tool like this could be really useful to get a full song moving along.

I have an older version of Jammer (version 4) and I have the second latest version of BIAB (vs 2006, I beleive).

In general, I like the grooves/styles in Jammer better. BUT, there aren't that many of them and the best I can tell, they haven't really updated them IN YEARS.

If I were forced to pick one over the other I would go with BIAB. Mainly, because they seem to continue to update and improve their product and there are TONS of styles to pick from. It also appears to me that they are trying to improve their newer styles (i.e., give them a better, more realistic feel). BIAB is a very handy product to have, for many different reasons.

I have both Band-In-A-Box and Jammer.

BIAB is more complex and clunky interface-wise, but has its good points. With Jammer, I can create custom rhythm patterns from scratch, which I like. It also enables you to use MIDI files to create patterns. I like this feature, because often I'll create the "feel" of a song in Sonar, then use the resulting MIDI file in Jammer from which to create full-length custom rhythm tracks. That way, you only have to play each pattern once and then the software repeats it for the duration of the verse, chorus, or whatever. I then bring the whole thing back into Sonar for touch-ups and to add non-rhythmic instruments, i.e. strings, brass, solos, etc. You can do all that equally well with BIAB too, but like I said, it's rather a clunky process since the BIAB interface is nowhere near as streamlined.

Works for me.

I have Band in a Box 2007 with all styles, Jammer 6 without any extra styles yet, Onyx arranger with all styles.

BiaB 2007: Clunky interface. A lot of things are done with numbers and strange menus. There are, however, lots of styles (if you buy them), though they have a tendency to sound jazzy. Even the rock ones sound like a jazz musician doing his best to play rock. There a regular updates, a forum and more.

Jammer 6: Real Windows interface. I like this. I like the whole approach and the way you can manipulate things yourself, including modifying or creating new styles. Their own styles, however, are limited... Well, in their adds it sounds like a lot of styles, but that is because they split things up. One style in BiaBi is equivalent to about 12 styles in Jammer.

Onyx Arranger: Stay away from this. Nice program with a lot of potential. The first which could convert midi files to styles. But ... they haven't updated for almost 2 years, even obvious bugs, and they don't respond to support questions. My guess is the programmer has disappeared and they bought the stuff and just sell it without it ever being updated again. Sorry, forgot, there was actually a recent update after 2 years, but only minor bug fixes, no development of the program.

BIAB is superb for Jazz, Swing, Big Band, and even funky Rhythm and Blues. Country, Rock, and most styles that most users here on the forum might use are just so-so. If you work with them and do a lot of editing either to the styles in biab or export to sonar as smf and edit them there you can get some nice tracks. I almost forgot Bluegrass is pretty good but all styles need editing. I couldn't imagine anyone actually just creating a song in any style and it be usable without editing except the jazz and swing styles and even then I probably would be to picky to use them without editing.

Years ago I use to use it quite often back in the late 80's early 90's but I found that I spent more time editing my songs than it was worth it. I could just start from scratch sonar and come out with much better results. I guess I was excited about the technology but I don't think it ever evolved enough. It would be great if you could input a chord chart and come up with tracks that were usable without editing. I think the technology will get to the point to where this will happen at some point.

Bob

ORIGINAL: stratguy

Years ago I use to use it quite often back in the late 80's early 90's but I found that I spent more time editing my songs than it was worth it. I could just start from scratch sonar and come out with much better results. I guess I was excited about the technology but I don't think it ever evolved enough. It would be great if you could input a chord chart and come up with tracks that were usable without editing. I think the technology will get to the point to where this will happen at some point.

Bob

I agree with much of what you said. I have gotten some usable results out of BIAB, but sometimes due to accident as much than anything else. There a few gems in there that will work with certain types of songs. Sometimes I've gotten some good results by mixing it with Stylus RMX and groove quantizing the parts together. I agree, most of the Rock styles flat out stink.

I think there is huge potential for a product like this.... if it could produce high quality results consistently.

ORIGINAL: Michael_uk

Ok .. I know there's a hate following amongst composers and musicians for Band-In-A-Box/Jammer type things and I do have some sympathy with this. However, many people find them useful in various ways and so onto my question.

Hi, Michael_uk,

Well, I for one like Jammer Pro and use it quite a bit. BTW, I have a university degree in Music Compsition and Theory. I don't have the slightest problem with using something like Jammer or BIAB for inspiration. Often, I'll come up with a chord progression and let Jammer come up with some good bass lines and drum parts. Then I'll take the MIDI files, put them back into Sonar and tweak them in the Piano Roll View to my hearts desire. BTW, I'm still using Jammer 4 with Sonar 5.2, so I can't address how well the latest Jammer works with Sonar 6.21.

Which is the better, PG Music's Band-In-A-Box 2007 or SoundTreks's Jammer Pro 6? I imagine either would work well in Sonar Producer 6. Is there anyone here who has experience of both with Sonar who can advise.

Boy, that's a question I'd like an answer to, as well. I'm currently right in the middle of a personal debate as to whether I should upgrade to Jammer 2007 or change to BIAB. The only thing that really interests me in BIAB that Jammer doesn't support yet is audio files. And, as others have mentioned, BIAB has a lot more styles and such available. Jammer is definitely limited in that department. Still, since I've been using Jammer since version 2, I think I'll probably wind up sticking with Jammer and getting the 2007 edition.

With apologies to the musicians in the forums who find difficulty in tolerating these apps.

In my personal opinion, you have no need to apologize, nor feel in any way bad, for using an application such as Jammer or BIAB. Like most of the other marvelous applications we use, Jammer and BIAB are nothing more than *tools* to help you get to the place you'd like to go as a composer. While I doubt I'd ever wind up using anything that has been generated by these programs without alteration, they can sure spark some ideas in your head that you may never have thought of. Anyone who calls that "cheating" or the like is simply ignoring another tool that we have at our disposal at this time in history. That's the way I see it, anyway.

Bill