• SONAR
  • Odd Question about EQ Frequencies (p.3)
2013/06/10 17:42:44
Danny Danzi
And I'd never hold it against you if you did need to argue. :) Everything (in my opinion) can be valid in this field when it comes to YOUR sounds using YOUR gear. This is what makes it all so difficult to process at times. We can listen to so and so tell us how this that this and this works for him and it may not work at all for you. This is why I stress forgetting about starting points other than the ones you have created for yourself using your instruments and your gear.
 
The next thing to find out for you is....just how good are those starting points? This you'll find out when you share a current mix. I can't tell you how many times I thought I nailed something Beeps...only to have have my mentor or someone else with more knowledge than me tell me "nope, this still doesn't sound too good.". So don't get too excited yet lol! I'm not saying that to deter your progress....but that's been the downer for me when I was learning this stuff.
 
In a nutshell Beeps....I sincerely feel EVERYONE has golden ears. The problem is...the systems some monitor on will never allow them to know for sure because the fixes or upgrades may be out of their price range. Honest when I tell you...when you have the right monitor rig, science, frequencies, decision making, starting points, none of that matters. You hear something...you know what you're hearing is right or wrong...you know what to fix because you can recognize the problem area or you get more of a hint from an analyzer and bang...you fix it and move on. That's how simple it truly is.
 
When the pro's mix an album...they mix a song per day most times. That's how it SHOULD be. What they hear is truthful. If it sounds too bassy when they listen back somewhere, it is bassy. For the home studio guy that may be on this forum, he's dealing with other issues. He's trying to write things down by listening in his car only to go back into his studio to try and remedy things that he doesn't even hear on those speakers. None of this should be a science trip or a second guessing situation. When you hear correctly, it totally changes everything and there is no need for starting points because you can easily fix issues based on hearing correctly. At least that's how it has panned out for me as well as all the students I work with. :)
 
-Danny
2013/06/10 18:57:45
gswitz
I have learned that it's ok to experiment by playing with things like the FX Chains Templates and the factory eq settings that come with some plugs and devices. Some are radical. It's fun. On a track a while back I did total vocal silliness passing only a small range of sound. It made for a fun and different track. I enjoy both mixing for a strictly natural sound that works on most systems as well as forgetting natural and using the tools to get something that draws in the listener.
 
I think it's silly to pretend that some how the engineer is transparent. Frankly, I've started wondering as I listen whether certain ideas are the artists or the engineers. "Did that sound like that during the original performance?"
 
And I'm sometimes startled by the disdain some have for the art of mixing. Some people will listen to a mix and like it based on how parts were performed performed rather than by what it sounds like. My mom was listening to a recording of my kid singing a Xmas carol and she wanted asked how it was created. I said I just hit the good song button and it just happened.
 
:-)
 
I also love bits where you can hear the musician thinking (think imperfect). Note sequences that would rarely result from thought through melody design can rise up. And the fact that you can hear the musician thinking is so awesome to me... especially when the lines work.
2013/06/10 19:45:39
Dude Ivey
I thought i was getting pretty good at using an EQ but after reading all the post about the science of it, now i feel stupid and actually i know nothing about an EQ! Lol
2013/06/10 22:09:24
konradh
Dude Ivey, Don't worry about it.  If you are getting stuff to sound good, you obviously have all the skill you need!
2013/06/11 12:40:23
Guitarhacker
Here's something else to consider. 
 
If you play a note... say 440 (A) .... unless it is a pure sine wave (and very few sounds we use are pure sines)  you will have harmonics above and below that note. There are the dominate ones and the less dominate ones. (440x2, x3, x4, x5,x6 and so on and on the other lower end 440x.5, x.25, and so on. the harmonics below the primary note are generally very weak)  Even and odd order harmonics will be generated from the primary note. How loud each harmonic is determines much of the character and color of a given note. It is these very harmonics, especially the even order ones that guitarists love. We call it "tone"....
 
While this is sometimes hard to hear since we hear the primary the loudest, it is easy to see on an oscilloscope.
 
But it gets better. As you add other notes, these notes are also doing the same thing but with one more interesting factor. You now get the two or more notes interacting with each other. It's called "beat frequency" and other harmonics are generated as a result. These harmonics can be much higher in the frequency band above the original notes, but they are there and they can often cause havoc in frequency bands we think are totally unrelated to where the primary is located. Some extend well past 10k, and they are shaping the color of that note that is down around 440.  that's the "air" frequencies Danny ( I believe) mentioned above.
 
I don't try to figure things out scientifically when I'm mixing and adjusting the EQ on something. I listen to the mix and try to determine what the issue is, what's causing it, and then what steps or adjustments are needed to fix it. The stuff above about harmonics and beat freqs is nice to know, but mix by using your ears. So yes, it is totally within the realm of possibility that you need to adjust the EQ well above the primary instrument or voice to solve an EQ issue.
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