deanx

SteveStrummerUK


And as for your line about 'morale', I find that rather counter-intuitive, although it is concomitant with the rest of your post. If we're only allowed to exalt Cakewalk, and never criticise their products or business modus operandi, what a saccharin-sweet den of abject sycophancy this place would soon become. And how much poorer the quality of their products would be, with nobody allowed to point out any problems and grievances with it.

 
Do this on the IK Multimedia forum and your psots will quickly be deleted or threads will belocked. I've had this a couple times for expressing my concerns on never ending i-xxx products and no development in the full desktop apps, the missing stealthboard etc etc.
 
I'm a long term member of IK who owns a lot of there software and interfaces. They will not have a bad word or difference in opinion said over there whatsoever.

You wouldn't want that to happen in here though, would you?
 
 

SteveStrummerUK

deanx

SteveStrummerUK


And as for your line about 'morale', I find that rather counter-intuitive, although it is concomitant with the rest of your post. If we're only allowed to exalt Cakewalk, and never criticise their products or business modus operandi, what a saccharin-sweet den of abject sycophancy this place would soon become. And how much poorer the quality of their products would be, with nobody allowed to point out any problems and grievances with it.

Do this on the IK Multimedia forum and your psots will quickly be deleted or threads will belocked. I've had this a couple times for expressing my concerns on never ending i-xxx products and no development in the full desktop apps, the missing stealthboard etc etc.
 
I'm a long term member of IK who owns a lot of there software and interfaces. They will not have a bad word or difference in opinion said over there whatsoever.

You wouldn't want that to happen in here though, would you?
 
 

No Way. I was peeved to find a forum moderator had deleted my post without even a warning or a PM. A long term member with £1000's invested, many thank you's for helping on the forum and then just cut off a thread when I say I'm not into their i-deveices because I don't even own iPhone or iPad.
 
Peeved I say
 
 

SteveStrummerUK

John
I have to post. I don't want to because I think this thread is an insult to CW. Nor do I think it is posted in any sort of good faith. The question asked can't be answered with any certainty. The OP has to know that. Also it in a way it puts people on record. What happens if you say I wont upgrade now but later when a new version is released you go for it? Or the opposite?
 
 
 
Mike you have been around long enough to know that CW does not normally get involved with the threads on this forum. Thats not to say they don't come here and say something on occasion. But its been my experience that it runs hot or cold with the Bakers. Sometimes they are here other times they are not. Usually they are here when there is a new release. 
 
Often members beg for CW to answer a question  here. That is often futile for good reasons. It encourages more begging.
 
We don't know what is going on at CW but that seems not to impede speculation. What we are seeing is a rumor mill in full operation and those that have been here awhile ought to know better.
No matter what your views are on X2 I think its very unfair to persist with negative comments about CW's future. No one here knows anything about it. All it does is cause a general low morale for us and for the people at CW. 
 
If you care about this forum and CW and how well it does please put an end to this thread. 
 
I do not want CW to do anything but we can simply stop posting in it. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Sounds a bit like censorship to me John.
 
People have paid their hard earned cash for Cakewalk's software (or more accurately, the Licence to use it), and are thereby entitled to express their opinions about it - albeit within the TOS. And it's up to Cakewalk to decide whether or not those opinions are allowed to remain in here, not you, or me, for that matter.
 
And as for your line about 'morale', I find that rather counter-intuitive, although it is concomitant with the rest of your post. If we're only allowed to exalt Cakewalk, and never criticise their products or business modus operandi, what a saccharin-sweet den of abject sycophancy this place would soon become. And how much poorer the quality of their products would be, with nobody allowed to point out any problems and grievances with it.
 
I've always had the utmost respect for guys such as yourself who have put your lives on the line to protect my right to free speech from those all too willing to take it away from me; I can never understand why you'd want to deny that right in a public forum of all places.
 
 
 
 

I can see why some don't see my point of view. But you mention free speech.  Since when did this forum become public and what ever happened to the TOS? It is a forum that does not belong to us it belongs to CW. Every post is their property. Because they are not anal about what is said here doesn't mean it is public. All forums are hosted by some one and what is there is not up to you or me but them.
 
If this were a purely public forum with no owner no one could ever be banned.  We know that members have in fact been banned. You could say they were exercising their God given right of free speech. Now they are gone. So much for free speech.  
 
Also the complaints in part are from people that have not posted about their issues but have come here to bash and speculate. Where is anyone asking what steps were taken to solve their problem? Did any of them even bother to contact CW? 
 
Its very easy to make a thread like this and suck people up into it for reasons I can't figure out. 
 
Again I have already said that I do not want CW doing anything about this thread. That is because I prefer for us to handle it. That means voicing another point of view for those that believe in free speech, what about mine?
 
It seems to me that in this case I am the one that is taking the unpopular view. Isn't that where protecting the speech is most important? Or have I got it all wrong?
 
 
 
 
 

X3?  Prolly not for me.
 
I have, but do not use, the X series. Too many menus (filters, note values, take lanes, meters,...), Extra clicks for most everything, Wasted screen space, lack of user-configurability, reduced quick feedback of state,... The X series requires more attention to the interface.
 
Example:
   8.5: peripheral vision awareness of note values,...
   X:   requires movement and focusing of eyes on menu header to READ values,... more attention to the interface.
 
Example: in my wood workshop I place tools on the bench for quick use.
The X series way: all tools are automatically replaced in the drawers, and cabinets, and on the wall, requiring more attention to finding the tool needed again.  Wasted time at best.
 
The "de-cluttering" mania used a too-wide brush sweeping away many reasonable bits: i.e., small-button bars,...
 
Putting note values on a menu is a clear example of mental hysteria and mob behavior. No one with enough power said, "That is stupid."
 
FYI: It took 5 numbered versions (6 years) for Sonar to get configurable menus and taskbars.
 
CW managers: Reducing the price of upgrades was a major stupidity. There are ways to increase user-base and make a profit. But, reducing price is not one of them. It attracts users with expectations of more for less. Results: the company has more users to care for, and less money to do so. Not a good strategy.
 
A good strategy is to create a cohort of supporting businesses. When others are able to make money selling add-in products promotion costs are reduced, user-base is increased, the primary company can focus on the core product and expertise.
 
VST is a great example of product promotion through 3rd party participation. Pro-channel, not so much.
 
Example:
Reaper:
       proprietary without secretiveness, open to 3rd party support
 
       configurable everything
 
       programming interface, and user macro language, attachable to 1-click buttons
 
       extensive selection of user created GUI templates/skins/themes ( with sizable faders,...)
         (take a look at the houseofwhitetie.com theme: a third party add-on!)
 
       a deep understanding that the user forum is the MOST important asset a business has, when used as such
        a constant dialog between managers, programmers, and users
           (Until today: CW: main forum page: announcements: last post: October 05, 2011)
 
I used products that enhanced Sonar's use (CAL extensions, macro add-on,...) that were thwarted by CW's managers unwillingness to cooperate. Bad business.
 
And the beat goes on.

I worked for a company who had the contract to manufacture the first touch screens back in the early 90's.
we knew it was the future, we were using it to control everything in our labs.
don't deny touch man. it aint going anywhere. its large scale. 
 

wait until touch becomes 3D...then you can haz knob twiddling for sure....
 
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57569078-94/a-keyboard-that-rises-up-from-flat-touch-screens/

deanx

SteveStrummerUK

deanx

SteveStrummerUK


And as for your line about 'morale', I find that rather counter-intuitive, although it is concomitant with the rest of your post. If we're only allowed to exalt Cakewalk, and never criticise their products or business modus operandi, what a saccharin-sweet den of abject sycophancy this place would soon become. And how much poorer the quality of their products would be, with nobody allowed to point out any problems and grievances with it.

Do this on the IK Multimedia forum and your psots will quickly be deleted or threads will belocked. I've had this a couple times for expressing my concerns on never ending i-xxx products and no development in the full desktop apps, the missing stealthboard etc etc.
 
I'm a long term member of IK who owns a lot of there software and interfaces. They will not have a bad word or difference in opinion said over there whatsoever.

You wouldn't want that to happen in here though, would you?
 
 

No Way. I was peeved to find a forum moderator had deleted my post without even a warning or a PM. A long term member with £1000's invested, many thank you's for helping on the forum and then just cut off a thread when I say I'm not into their i-deveices because I don't even own iPhone or iPad.
 
Peeved I say
 
 

John

SteveStrummerUK

John
I have to post. I don't want to because I think this thread is an insult to CW. Nor do I think it is posted in any sort of good faith. The question asked can't be answered with any certainty. The OP has to know that. Also it in a way it puts people on record. What happens if you say I wont upgrade now but later when a new version is released you go for it? Or the opposite?
 
 
 
Mike you have been around long enough to know that CW does not normally get involved with the threads on this forum. Thats not to say they don't come here and say something on occasion. But its been my experience that it runs hot or cold with the Bakers. Sometimes they are here other times they are not. Usually they are here when there is a new release. 
 
Often members beg for CW to answer a question  here. That is often futile for good reasons. It encourages more begging.
 
We don't know what is going on at CW but that seems not to impede speculation. What we are seeing is a rumor mill in full operation and those that have been here awhile ought to know better.
No matter what your views are on X2 I think its very unfair to persist with negative comments about CW's future. No one here knows anything about it. All it does is cause a general low morale for us and for the people at CW. 
 
If you care about this forum and CW and how well it does please put an end to this thread. 
 
I do not want CW to do anything but we can simply stop posting in it. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Sounds a bit like censorship to me John.
 
People have paid their hard earned cash for Cakewalk's software (or more accurately, the Licence to use it), and are thereby entitled to express their opinions about it - albeit within the TOS. And it's up to Cakewalk to decide whether or not those opinions are allowed to remain in here, not you, or me, for that matter.
 
And as for your line about 'morale', I find that rather counter-intuitive, although it is concomitant with the rest of your post. If we're only allowed to exalt Cakewalk, and never criticise their products or business modus operandi, what a saccharin-sweet den of abject sycophancy this place would soon become. And how much poorer the quality of their products would be, with nobody allowed to point out any problems and grievances with it.
 
I've always had the utmost respect for guys such as yourself who have put your lives on the line to protect my right to free speech from those all too willing to take it away from me; I can never understand why you'd want to deny that right in a public forum of all places.
 
 
 
 

I can see why some don't see my point of view. But you mention free speech.  Since when did this forum become public and what ever happened to the TOS? It is a forum that does not belong to us it belongs to CW. Every post is their property. Because they are not anal about what is said here doesn't mean it is public. All forums are hosted by some one and what is there is not up to you or me but them.
 
If this were a purely public forum with no owner no one could ever be banned.  We know that members have in fact been banned. You could say they were exercising their God given right of free speech. Now they are gone. So much for free speech.  
 
Also the complaints in part are from people that have not posted about their issues but have come here to bash and speculate. Where is anyone asking what steps were taken to solve their problem? Did any of them even bother to contact CW? 
 
Its very easy to make a thread like this and suck people up into it for reasons I can't figure out. 
 
Again I have already said that I do not want CW doing anything about this thread. That is because I prefer for us to handle it. That means voicing another point of view for those that believe in free speech, what about mine?
 
It seems to me that in this case I am the one that is taking the unpopular view. Isn't that where protecting the speech is most important? Or have I got it all wrong?
 
 
 
 
 

What on earth are you on about John - of course it's "public".
 
And in exactly the same way as anywhere in 'real' life, and online, where there are no restrictions to anyone joining or participating.
 
And the same as real life, there are rules. Break them and you suffer the consequences, whatever they may be. To say that "if this was a public forum no one could be banned" is like saying that you could say and do whatever you like in a public bar and not be thrown out by the owner.
 
And incidentally, God didn't give me free speech (if anything, he seems to be trying his level best to abolish it completely for most of the inhabitants of this planet), it's guys like you who gave it to me, and have protected it for me; that was the point I was trying to make.
 
And read my post again - nowhere did I say that I wanted you to stop expressing your point of view at all, I simply disagreed with it.
 
I just don't understand why you always feel the need to defend this company? If they need their 'good name' and 'business practices' defended by some guy on a forum, then they are in more trouble than anyone here would like to believe.
 
My firm belief is that apart from one or two obvious trolls, everyone who complains about a Cakewalk product in these forums, and threatens to jump ship to a rival DAW, would much rather the software actually worked for them.
 
 
 
 

wetdentistit would not surprise me at all if Sonar got killed.

Along with many others here....
I've been with Cakewalk since v3.0 and watched it's evolution having every version through 5.0PE and recently pulled the trigger on X2a.
I'm not a power user and Cakewalk has always performed well and easily fits my needs.
Although I'm no alarmist and wallow in total ignorance of the software business protocols/decisions the above has been a concern of mine since the Roland involvement.
There's so many other platforms out there now which can be more cost effective I wonder how so many can actually continue to survive in such a competitive, ever changing environment.
 
Personally, I will stay with Cakewalk and I have never had any reason to defect as I don't believe the grass is necessarily greener with other platforms over time.
I will only hope that the above scenario never occurs and the X series continues to thrive and compete well in a hellish market.
 
Carry on....

 X2 users: Would you buy X3 if there was no X2b?
 Yes , specially now, just builded a new system with an Intel I 7 cpu.
 It.s runnung like hell (or  heaven, what you like better) here
 regards
 Pragi

Personally, whether Roland is involved or not doesn't make a difference to me. I think Roland is pretty darn innovative. Look at V-Drums, for example, when they first came out. They were pretty far ahead of their time, if you ask me. Roland also were always a bit ahead of Yamaha in the hardware DAW market. I think Yamaha was a bit more solid-feeling, and played it safe a few times, but either way, with Steinberg in Yamaha's wallet, I can see benefits of Cakewalk dipping into Roland's wallet. I'd personally like to see some more QA and resources put into Sonar, and that's a great way to get the money. 
 
Conversely, if CW remains autonomous, they can continue on as they planned and not have to deal with as much of the larger Corporation's priorities. Sometimes that can be a hindrance, not that this would be the case with Roland.
 
I just want X2b before X3, even if it only contains fixes, patches, and maybe some added performance tweaks. X3 can go on to re-vamp the somewhat ill-received Take Lanes, and rightfully so. Take Lanes are, in a practical sense, still quite unusable to some.
 
X3 could have a touch environment like I've suggested before, and if they did, rocking the next Winter 'NAMM would blow away Mr. Slate.