noynekker



I'm sure the next Cakewalk Sonar version will have many new amazing features, but I will be most disappointed if there is no improvement to their Staff notation.

Prepare to be disappointed.

If this keeps up I hope the next version of Sonar will include a popcorn maker. Those air poppers with the butter well are quite nice!

vintagevibe

djwayne


Just been reading on other forums about daws, comparing Sonar to Cubase, in the notation department, Cubase wins. I hate to say it but if Sonar wants to compete, they are going to have to upgrade the notation capabilities. That's just what other people are saying.

As far as notation Cubase doesn't win ... it completely demolishes Sonar.  That's why I'm switching.  Cakewalk has let the staff view fester for 15 years and refuses to implement even the slightest improvements.

 
 
Yes this is what I'm reading on other forums. I'm hoping X3 will have at least some improvements. I know I was a member of the " I don't care about notation" camp for a long time, but I can see now where it would come in handy to have. Anytime I mention Sonar on other forums, I get beat down with the notation features. I'd like to see Sonar become more successful than it already is, and having a quality notation section seems to be the next logical step.

vintagevibe

noynekker



I'm sure the next Cakewalk Sonar version will have many new amazing features, but I will be most disappointed if there is no improvement to their Staff notation.

Prepare to be disappointed.

I would have to agree with Vintagevibe on this one. It seems to me that there is no way major improvments can or will be made in the Staff View. The most we can hope for is obvious behavior and integration fixes.

vintagevibe

daveny5

That's just what other people are saying.

No its not. Although I am interested in improved notation, most people are not. If you need better notation, get Finale or Sibelius. Sonar cannot be all things to all people. At least not for $400. 

You have absolutely no clue what the purpose of a notation function in a DAW is for.  Otherwise you wouldn't make the ridiculous assumption that Finale or Sibelius could fill that function.

I was doing notation on a computer (and on paper before that) probably before you were born. 
 

I've given up on waiting for notation improvements... so I havn't upgraded to X2 since it doesn't give me what I need.

daveny5

That's just what other people are saying.

No its not. Although I am interested in improved notation, most people are not. If you need better notation, get Finale or Sibelius. Sonar cannot be all things to all people. At least not for $400. 

You, like so many others, do not fully understand what a DAW's notation editor is for.  It is NOT for producing printed, published-quality scores, not by a long shot.  It IS for MIDI inputting and editing, which is for production purposes, not score-creation purposes.  It is true that Cubase's and DP's notation editors are a little better than Sonar's, but not by much.  For example, DP's score editor also does not display dotted triplets correctly. What Sonar has that no other DAW to my knowledge has, is the ability to lock views and have multiple staff view open at the same time, each with different instruments on it.  For composers who work as I do, this is an amazing time-saver, as one doesn't have to keep selecting and re-selecting which instruments to work on.  X2 even made this better by using docked/locked views. 
 
With DAWs, the grass is always greener on the other side.  Though the Cubase score editor does have more features than Sonar, it is very clunky and complicated, far more complicated than Sibelius, which is an actual notation program!   In my opinion, Cakewalk need only add support for 64th notes, dotted and tied triplets, and 32nd note triplets and then it will be a full-fledged MIDI inputting and editing tool.  Keep in mind that even though Sonar X2 doesn't display these types of notation situations correctly, it plays them back correctly and accurately, so I've learned to live with the limitations as they don't affect the accuracy of MIDI playback and, since I create a final score in Sibelius, it doesn't impact how my scores look either. 
 
In a perfect world things would be different, but that's not the world we live in.
 
JG
www.jerrygerber.com
 
 

Elffin
I've given up on waiting for notation improvements... so I havn't upgraded to X2 since it doesn't give me what I need.

jsg

daveny5

That's just what other people are saying.

No its not. Although I am interested in improved notation, most people are not. If you need better notation, get Finale or Sibelius. Sonar cannot be all things to all people. At least not for $400. 

You, like so many others, do not fully understand what a DAW's notation editor is for.  It is NOT for producing printed, published-quality scores, not by a long shot.  It IS for MIDI inputting and editing, which is for production purposes, not score-creation purposes.  It is true that Cubase's and DP's notation editors are a little better than Sonar's, but not by much.  For example, DP's score editor also does not display dotted triplets correctly. What Sonar has that no other DAW to my knowledge has, is the ability to lock views and have multiple staff view open at the same time, each with different instruments on it.  For composers who work as I do, this is an amazing time-saver, as one doesn't have to keep selecting and re-selecting which instruments to work on.  X2 even made this better by using docked/locked views. 
 
With DAWs, the grass is always greener on the other side.  Though the Cubase score editor does have more features than Sonar, it is very clunky and complicated, far more complicated than Sibelius, which is an actual notation program!   In my opinion, Cakewalk need only add support for 64th notes, dotted and tied triplets, and 32nd note triplets and then it will be a full-fledged MIDI inputting and editing tool.  Keep in mind that even though Sonar X2 doesn't display these types of notation situations correctly, it plays them back correctly and accurately, so I've learned to live with the limitations as they don't affect the accuracy of MIDI playback and, since I create a final score in Sibelius, it doesn't impact how my scores look either. 
 
In a perfect world things would be different, but that's not the world we live in.
 
JG
www.jerrygerber.com
 
 

+100
 
Tied triplets are supported, but they must be in groups of 3, with no embedded rests.  Removal of that limitation would be welcome.

+100
 
Tied triplets are supported, but they must be in groups of 3, with no embedded rests.  Removal of that limitation would be welcome.




Tied triplets play back correctly (in Sonar) but do not display correctly in the staff view.  If you would like proof, enter two sets of eighth note triplets. Delete the 1st note of the 2nd group and tie the 3rd note of the first group to the first note of the second group by doubling its length, from 160 ticks to 320 ticks (assuming a timebase of 420 ticks per quarter note).  You will see an extra beam that should not be there, and you will also see dotted notes, which are also incorrect.  What it should look like is simply two groups of eighth note triplets, with a tie between the last note of the 1st group and the 1st note of the 2nd group.
 
JG
www.jerrygerber.com
 

Sonar is a sequencer and notation is only sort of additional possibility. For really notation you have to use notation software. However notation should be updated to improve editing midi with notation. I like to edit with regular notation, but some operations are impossible to do, so I have to change to PRV, which sometimes is inconvenient.