• SONAR
  • X2 A-Update--> 2012-18-12...2013-06-04 and still no new B update? (p.9)
2013/06/01 21:45:08
mmorgan
Probably damn near the true numbers there Glen.



Agree with this and with Glenn's numbers.

I write software and I also have to support it. The software I write has full error trapping that can tell me which function call had the error and what the error was. Those are errors and/or bugs. I also do a lot of verification that users have supplied the correct information or that the information I need to perform the task at hand is available. If it isn't I throw my own error and my error handler can determine whether it was a system error or a bit of information that I need to inform the user that something is missing.

Can't tell you how many times a user has told me that there was a bug/error message. When I follow up on it and ask them what the error was they "don't remember". But I log all of my applications error 'messaging' and when I look it up I'll see something along the lines of "Last Name is a required field. Please fill out all required fields and then click the Save button." That isn't a bug, that is the system trying to inform the user that they haven't done something they need to.

This is not to say that problems don't exist, they do. And I suspect I'm not the only person coding who really strives to eliminate bugs. However, as Glenn so correctly states, most of the time it is not a 'bug' - it is a misunderstanding on the users part. And for what it is worth: I changed my sampling rate a few months back and have been bedeviled by on ongoing series of 'bugs' - generally resulting in GSOD followed by BSOD. All of which had a logical and easily correctable solution once I understood where the problem was.

Regards,
2013/06/01 22:53:49
vintagevibe
mmorgan



Probably damn near the true numbers there Glen.



Agree with this and with Glenn's numbers.

I write software and I also have to support it. The software I write has full error trapping that can tell me which function call had the error and what the error was. Those are errors and/or bugs. I also do a lot of verification that users have supplied the correct information or that the information I need to perform the task at hand is available. If it isn't I throw my own error and my error handler can determine whether it was a system error or a bit of information that I need to inform the user that something is missing.

Can't tell you how many times a user has told me that there was a bug/error message. When I follow up on it and ask them what the error was they "don't remember". But I log all of my applications error 'messaging' and when I look it up I'll see something along the lines of "Last Name is a required field. Please fill out all required fields and then click the Save button." That isn't a bug, that is the system trying to inform the user that they haven't done something they need to.

This is not to say that problems don't exist, they do. And I suspect I'm not the only person coding who really strives to eliminate bugs. However, as Glenn so correctly states, most of the time it is not a 'bug' - it is a misunderstanding on the users part. And for what it is worth: I changed my sampling rate a few months back and have been bedeviled by on ongoing series of 'bugs' - generally resulting in GSOD followed by BSOD. All of which had a logical and easily correctable solution once I understood where the problem was.

Regards,

Tools not working as per the manual = bug. 
Inability to drag/scroll in the play list = bug.
Keyboard shortcut in playlist (E) not working and no way to assign it =  bug.
Drum map manger inserting another drum map name in the save window after saving = bug.
When saving a synth preset Sonar adds another .fxp for every save giving synthpatch.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp after multiple saves = bug.

 I could go on but there are many real bugs in X2 ... or perhaps these are all by design and Cakewalk has the worst application designers in the industry.  






2013/06/01 23:07:08
stevec
When saving a synth preset Sonar adds another .fxp for every save giving synthpatch.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp after multiple saves = bug.

 
That one I have seen.   Nothing critical, of course, but yeah, it's for real IMO,
 
2013/06/01 23:23:41
chuckebaby
what is the playlist?
2013/06/01 23:36:46
chuckebaby
vintagevibe


mmorgan



Probably damn near the true numbers there Glen.



Agree with this and with Glenn's numbers.

I write software and I also have to support it. The software I write has full error trapping that can tell me which function call had the error and what the error was. Those are errors and/or bugs. I also do a lot of verification that users have supplied the correct information or that the information I need to perform the task at hand is available. If it isn't I throw my own error and my error handler can determine whether it was a system error or a bit of information that I need to inform the user that something is missing.

Can't tell you how many times a user has told me that there was a bug/error message. When I follow up on it and ask them what the error was they "don't remember". But I log all of my applications error 'messaging' and when I look it up I'll see something along the lines of "Last Name is a required field. Please fill out all required fields and then click the Save button." That isn't a bug, that is the system trying to inform the user that they haven't done something they need to.

This is not to say that problems don't exist, they do. And I suspect I'm not the only person coding who really strives to eliminate bugs. However, as Glenn so correctly states, most of the time it is not a 'bug' - it is a misunderstanding on the users part. And for what it is worth: I changed my sampling rate a few months back and have been bedeviled by on ongoing series of 'bugs' - generally resulting in GSOD followed by BSOD. All of which had a logical and easily correctable solution once I understood where the problem was.

Regards,

Tools not working as per the manual = bug. 
Inability to drag/scroll in the play list = bug.
Keyboard shortcut in playlist (E) not working and no way to assign it =  bug.
Drum map manger inserting another drum map name in the save window after saving = bug.
When saving a synth preset Sonar adds another .fxp for every save giving synthpatch.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp after multiple saves = bug.

 I could go on but there are many real bugs in X2 ... or perhaps these are all by design and Cakewalk has the worst application designers in the industry.  

im sure you can do better than this.
 
like which tool(s) are you speaking of ?
what is a playlist ?
 
I know your upset, but think about, insulting cakewalk employee's isn't going to fix your issues man.
I can tell by your sig that this is really upsetting you. ( "programers..tech support...exc." ).
 
every software out there has some failures to it. every single one.
ive used other daws as well and im sure you have as well, you know others have issues too.
 
I think its because you like sonar and that's why your so upset.
because if you didn't, you would be wasting your time here.
 
I agree there are some things id like to see bettered in the next version, but surely you can appreciate this version ?
if we could rewind 10 years ago, we would die to be using a daw like this..and all these little things, issues, we would simply blow them off and move on because we would just chalk them up as part of the price we pay to have this technology we would be happy.
 
I can live with these things, its the real crashes and show stoppers or repeated failures in a process that I cant put up with.
and ill be the first to post them as I have before when x1 came out. it was a nightmare.
but once the first patch rolled out, it got better.
 
this release was nothing like x1 (im sure you know).
 
anyway, I hope you hang in there, I hope things get better for you.
and here's hoping what ever the next thing we see makes you happy.
 
good luck vibe. 
have this technology.
2013/06/01 23:40:00
John
Its called Play List and is used to automatically load projects one after another for playback.

 
2013/06/01 23:42:54
mmorgan
mmorgan Probably damn near the true numbers there Glen. Agree with this and with Glenn's numbers. I write software and I also have to support it. The software I write has full error trapping that can tell me which function call had the error and what the error was. Those are errors and/or bugs. I also do a lot of verification that users have supplied the correct information or that the information I need to perform the task at hand is available. If it isn't I throw my own error and my error handler can determine whether it was a system error or a bit of information that I need to inform the user that something is missing. Can't tell you how many times a user has told me that there was a bug/error message. When I follow up on it and ask them what the error was they "don't remember". But I log all of my applications error 'messaging' and when I look it up I'll see something along the lines of "Last Name is a required field. Please fill out all required fields and then click the Save button." That isn't a bug, that is the system trying to inform the user that they haven't done something they need to. This is not to say that problems don't exist, they do. And I suspect I'm not the only person coding who really strives to eliminate bugs. However, as Glenn so correctly states, most of the time it is not a 'bug' - it is a misunderstanding on the users part. And for what it is worth: I changed my sampling rate a few months back and have been bedeviled by on ongoing series of 'bugs' - generally resulting in GSOD followed by BSOD. All of which had a logical and easily correctable solution once I understood where the problem was. Regards, Tools not working as per the manual = bug.  Inability to drag/scroll in the play list = bug. Keyboard shortcut in playlist (E) not working and no way to assign it =  bug. Drum map manger inserting another drum map name in the save window after saving = bug. When saving a synth preset Sonar adds another .fxp for every save giving synthpatch.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp after multiple saves = bug.  I could go on but there are many real bugs in X2 ... or perhaps these are all by design and Cakewalk has the worst application designers in the industry.  



I've reread my post and I don't see anywhere in there where I state there are no bugs. In fact I merely stated that I agree with Glynn's numbers that the majority of posts on this forum that cry bug are not bugs. I went on to try and share my experiences that appear to back up what Glynn stated.


As for your list, I haven't verified it but if true then I would say this: Any time software doesn't perform per spec it is a bug. That said it's been my experience that the majority of the time when users cry bug they are mistaken.


Regards,
2013/06/02 00:04:32
John
I think Mike and Charlie have a good healthy view of things. I have no idea what the real numbers are in percentages as to what are true bugs or not. I do think that the general notion is valid that most things called bugs are not. 

Odd behavior may be due to a bug or it could be due to something completely removed from the program code. 

At present CW is supporting two OSs that are somewhat different from one another. Not to mention the immense number of possible software and hardware configurations. To me its very tall order that they are engaged in.  

First when saying something is a bug please be sure it is  by getting conformation from CW. 

Listing what you may think are bugs in a perfunctory list is meaningless.

One incident that I can not confirm is a crash when clicking on the master buss when the CV is floated on a second monitor was sent to CW and they could not replicate it. At this time neither can I. Others can and still others can't.  Until we can pin this down and prove that it will happen when certain things are done it is still up in the air what is happening. I will not call it a bug because it is not consistent. That by no means exempts CW but its really unfair to accuse CW of a bug when we can't show it to be there.

Also as Charlie so wisely points out being upset about it wont help solve it.

We need cool facts that can be replicated by us and CW. 


2013/06/02 00:30:40
rabeach
 I could go on but there are many real bugs in X2

please do I was able to confirm the synth preset issue if you use the pull down and pick the name of the preset  a standard practice in windows. works correctly if you type the name in. but it should be fixed. i don't use the play list or drum maps so I want try to confirm those. what is the issue with tools.

2013/06/02 01:53:36
ugp
 you know, I went over to the Studio One forum and their complaining about how come it's taking so long for a patch to fix their bugs... Go figure
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