brundlefly


Something's different in your environment.

I can set up an SD3 track (Simple Instrument or separate MIDI and multiple audio output tracks), bounce the audio to another track, invert the phase, loop any range , and the live SD playback will null near perfectly with the audio track for as long as I let it run.

I say "near perfectly" because SD3's real-time MIDI playback is never a 100% consistent to the sample, so you'll hear a a little smidgen of a hit sneak through every once in while, and the tracks can get out of sync by a few samples if you restart playback in the middle of the loop or the loop isn't right on measure/beat boundaries (i.e. not a whole number of audio buffers), but there's no cumulative sync error over time; they'll just drift in and out of phase - first one way and then the other - as the loop iterates. Of course, this isn't ideal behavior, but you're only likely to hear it when trying to null two identical tracks like this. 


I don't have Abbey Road or Battery, but the same pretty much goes for any other synth I try this with - drums or otherwise.

If you can post an example project somewhere using only SONAR-bundled instruments, I'd be interested to see what it does on my machine.

I think we're sometimes too quick to blame our systems and configurations. When you're using a computer which more than meets Cakewalk's minimum specifications, and a popular interface with up-to-date ASIO drivers, and something as widely used as Battery or Session Drummer, and looping screws up the MIDI timing of hits, then I think we can quite confidently say that our $400 DAW is lacking. 

What I mean to say is that it may be something that's different about your configuration as opposed to our's, but if that's the case, such a difference shouldn't be tripping up a program like Sonar. Part of the job of the developers is to make sure that fundamental stuff like this works on all configurations, unless there's something wildly unusual in that setup. I used Battery and Abbey Road extensively in Pro Tools with the exact same specification, and I never had any problems with MIDI notes lagging during a loop.

All I'm saying is that to fix anything, they have to be able to reproduce it. If I can't reproduce it, it's likely they can't either, and your problem report gets filed under "no fault found".

Fortunately for you, I kept at it, and I now have a reproducible example to submit to the Bakers, using only SD3 with no complications. After 180 iterations, I measured the live output lagging the recorded track by 40ms or about 10.7 samples per iteration. Definitely not something you'd usually notice in your typical 3-5 recording takes.

In order to get this to happen, I had to try many different loop lengths that were neither a whole number of beats long, nor starting on a beat. And even now, if I move the loop a little one way or the other, or change its length, things tend to get back in sync and stay that way. And I absolutely cannot get it to happen with loop points snapped to beat boundaries.

If you can come up with a more heinous example, it might get more attention.

Sonar does this here to, any vsti playing back any midi track, no matter if there's 1 track or 20, how long the loop is, effect plugins or not etc.. just slowly drifts out of time

After a little while it's so out of time I have to stop and restart.

Sometimes it also affects midi input, the more the midi gets out of sync when playing back notes, the more the input latency increases, everything is reset if you stop and restart the looped region.
Any other DAW I have on the same box works fine.

Kenneth


Sonar does this here to, any vsti playing back any midi track, no matter if there's 1 track or 20, how long the loop is, effect plugins or not etc.. just slowly drifts out of time

After a little while it's so out of time I have to stop and restart.

Sometimes it also affects midi input, the more the midi gets out of sync when playing back notes, the more the input latency increases, everything is reset if you stop and restart the looped region.
Any other DAW I have on the same box works fine.

It happens to me with MIDI input also. Huge latency after a while of jamming over a loop, is fine after stopping and starting again. 

Ugh, no recipe to correct this then? I'm having just this problem using X2a... As soon as start looping, my Steven Slate Drums 4 starts going out of synch, is bugging the hell out of me.

I guess i'll have to freeze them, but of course this is no good for working on the timing of the midi grrrr.

Sonar did this for me in Producer 8.5 and now also in X2 Producer.

I've been experimenting with a very simple set-up: 2 MIDI tracks, both 8 bars long, one with a MIDI drum groove clip pattern and the other playing a single note driving Omnisphere playing an arpeggiated (tempo-synched) instrument.

If I solo one track or the other, I can loop indefinitely and everything keeps in-synch, verified by switching in the metronome to check. If I allow both tracks to play together, then after a variable number of loop repetitions the tracks go out of sync and it sounds like a mess.

It always seems to be the drums which do this, the Omnisphere track remains rock solid. It doesn't matter whether the MIDI clip is set as a groove clip or not.

Very occasionally it will all hang together and stay in synch, but most often the timing will break down quite quickly.

- -
Win 7 64, i5-2500, 8GB RAM
Sonar X2 Producer 64
Creamware Pulsar II PCI
Edirol PCR-300

I'm having a plethora of problems with X2a (which support are trying to help with and have for about a month or more - mostly graphics, to no avail) this has become the latest. 

I think I'm going to uninstall - again, and try going back to the quick fix. X2a has become a mess for me. 

Happens for me in X2 as well - In fact with any VSTi.
I have tried many things to try and resolve this, buffers/Latency etc.
I started to think it was my PC, but have noticed various comments in past threads.

I do not get this in Studio One 2.5, so a bit of a strange one.



Garry