InstrEd, you are likely correct, I was simply wanting to point out that partnering with Sibelius was not an option.

From your comments, partnering with Finale would not be an option either.

Looks like we will continue to have to wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait...

I think cake should outsource a whole separate Pro level notation package and price  as an add -on. Go Pro partner on it, get your present customers satisfied..make a small profit on a per package basis and expand your customer base. But, make sure it has a solid intuitive smooth interface with X1.

Rbh


I think cake should outsource a whole separate Pro level notation package and price  as an add -on. Go Pro partner on it, get your present customers satisfied..make a small profit on a per package basis and expand your customer base. But, make sure it has a solid intuitive smooth interface with X1.

You miss the point.  As has been said many many times we need notation INSIDE of Sonar.  I and many others already have external notation programs.  Why is this so hard to understand?

vintagevibe, to take a stab at your question...

It seems that for those who live strictly by improvising (not a bad thing - it is a very valid approach), there is sometimes a bias against those who use and need notation, a sense that anyone who needs notation is somehow inferior.  Sort of a "why would anyone need or want that?" 

It rears its head in virtually every thread over the years requesting improvements to notation within Sonar.  IMO, it is ok for those who never use notation and don't need it to not grasp the reasons some may want it within a DAW.  The troublesome issue is "I don't need it, why should anyone else need it?" 

Personally, I have no use whatever for loops, but that doesn't mean I think those tools should be excluded for those who do need them.

noldar12


vintagevibe, to take a stab at your question...

It seems that for those who live strictly by improvising (not a bad thing - it is a very valid approach), there is sometimes a bias against those who use and need notation, a sense that anyone who needs notation is somehow inferior.  Sort of a "why would anyone need or want that?" 

It rears its head in virtually every thread over the years requesting improvements to notation within Sonar.  IMO, it is ok for those who never use notation and don't need it to not grasp the reasons some may want it within a DAW.  The troublesome issue is "I don't need it, why should anyone else need it?" 

Personally, I have no use whatever for loops, but that doesn't mean I think those tools should be excluded for those who do need them

This is very true.  I don't use loops but I understand why some do.  Notation is probably more difficult for some to understand.  I improvise as well.  If I'm doing a pop or rock tune I just play but if I'm doing an orchestral work or percussion ensemble or even the string part to a pop song I need notation.  I wonder if anyone has ever tried to do voice leading in the piano roll?  Yikes!  Sometimes even in a rock or pop tune I want to do various harmonic things between the synths and piano is my weakest instrument so I need to write it out.

vintagevibe

Rbh


I think cake should outsource a whole separate Pro level notation package and price  as an add -on. Go Pro partner on it, get your present customers satisfied..make a small profit on a per package basis and expand your customer base. But, make sure it has a solid intuitive smooth interface with X1.

You miss the point.  As has been said many many times we need notation INSIDE of Sonar.  I and many others already have external notation programs.  Why is this so hard to understand?

Sorry...I didn't make my point clear.... outsource the development...but make it fully resident and fully parametric within Sonar. My point is that it should act only as if it's a solid smooth part of Sonar's workflow....of course there choices outside Sonar...but conversion via midi doesn't allow it to be parametric to Sonar's workflow. Which makes it pretty useless. I'm saying that marketing and selling it outside of the base DAW purchase gives users choices, and gives Cakewalk a whole new professional area to market too.

noldar12


vintagevibe, to take a stab at your question...

It seems that for those who live strictly by improvising (not a bad thing - it is a very valid approach), there is sometimes a bias against those who use and need notation, a sense that anyone who needs notation is somehow inferior.  Sort of a "why would anyone need or want that?" 

It rears its head in virtually every thread over the years requesting improvements to notation within Sonar.  IMO, it is ok for those who never use notation and don't need it to not grasp the reasons some may want it within a DAW.  The troublesome issue is "I don't need it, why should anyone else need it?" 

Personally, I have no use whatever for loops, but that doesn't mean I think those tools should be excluded for those who do need them.

I feel that this is a bit of a misnomer. I love improvisation and have studied jazz for more than 10 years. I've played in many bands from funk, soul, rock, techno, jazz.. whatever... And the more complex improvisation has become, the more complex of a backing track I want to make... Think Zappa.. I don't want to noodle on a minor scale while having 4 power chords in the background ala Malmsteen.. I can play alot of guitar, but if I want a sax break that is playing Coltrane licks that I might not even be able to play on guitar (well for one it's not saxophone..) I want to compose it and have midi play it. Notation is great for this.. Improvisation is just sped up Composition.... The more proficient that I've become in letting it rip, the more demanding I'v e become of what I want backing me, and without live players in the studio with me, well I can write a piano or violin solo like how I play guitar, but I need to write it if an instrument like piano or any other than guitar will do it. This too is a misnomer, because a piano solo will have a different natural line than that of guitar. Notation lets us tap into our inner Chick Corea.

Sorry...I didn't make my point clear.... outsource the development...but make it fully resident and fully parametric within Sonar. My point is that it should act only as if it's a solid smooth part of Sonar's workflow....of course there choices outside Sonar...but conversion via midi doesn't allow it to be parametric to Sonar's workflow. Which makes it pretty useless. I'm saying that marketing and selling it outside of the base DAW purchase gives users choices, and gives Cakewalk a whole new professional area to market too.

OK I see.  That's a really good idea.  I wonder if Cakewalk ever thought of it or how hard it would be.

I feel that this is a bit of a misnomer. I love improvisation and have studied jazz for more than 10 years. I've played in many bands from funk, soul, rock, techno, jazz.. whatever... And the more complex improvisation has become, the more complex of a backing track I want to make... Think Zappa.. I don't want to noodle on a minor scale while having 4 power chords in the background ala Malmsteen.. I can play alot of guitar, but if I want a sax break that is playing Coltrane licks that I might not even be able to play on guitar (well for one it's not saxophone..) I want to compose it and have midi play it. Notation is great for this.. Improvisation is just sped up Composition.... The more proficient that I've become in letting it rip, the more demanding I'v e become of what I want backing me, and without live players in the studio with me, well I can write a piano or violin solo like how I play guitar, but I need to write it if an instrument like piano or any other than guitar will do it. This too is a misnomer, because a piano solo will have a different natural line than that of guitar. Notation lets us tap into our inner Chick Corea.

Excellent point.  This illustrates how we all tend to see our software through the prism of our own needs.  Come to think of it life is a lot like that.

Audiounity, your points are well taken.  Many do use multiple approaches and value the strengths that each approach has.  My reaction was in regards to the knee-jerk responses against notation that seem to crop up so often in these threads.