2013/05/21 17:58:39
californiamusic
I saw a video on how Clip Gain is handled in Protools 10, when adjusting the volume.. the wave visually changes.  Can this be done in X2? 
 
Here's the vid I had seen...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YMPEtgb0tY
2013/05/21 20:30:46
emwhy
Hold the CONTROL key and rest your mouse over the clip, you can then adjust the gain. It doesn't visible shrink the wave form but you get an automation line.
2013/05/21 22:00:23
stevec
AFAIK, only fades directly affect the waveform display at this point.  
 
2013/05/21 22:27:39
chuckebaby
you can use automation, I find that is the easest way for me to work with clip changes in DB's
2013/05/21 23:33:50
Jeff Evans
The way that Pro Tools (and Studio One) handles clip gain is by far the best. It is way faster. I can cut up an audio region into several clips and just drag on the little clip gain widget for each of the individual segments and the waveform gets bigger/smaller. It allows you to match things very closely by eye. I could level up a track in fraction of the time you guys are doing with automation. I have got so used to this I could not live without it now.

IMO Automation is not the way to go. It is for other things. Rather than deal with smaller more fiddly aspects within a clip, automation can be used more for what it does well and that is making smoother changes here and there on tracks over time. Or just turn the odd section up or down as required. Automation can do fiddly things but then you needs lots of nodes to do it. With clip gain you just cut the odd things and separate them and tweak clip gains to suit. The thing is once you have levelled and evened things up clip gain wise, automation is actually rarely required. One less thing to do.

Once the clip gains are tweaked then the automation lines are still there for clips and tracks and it is easier to use them that way as well. It is when you use clip gain and automation things get interesting.

Not seeing the waveforms reflect clip gain is also not good either. You need to have some visual feedback that you have done something to a clip and the waveform height is the best way to do it.
2013/05/22 07:50:14
stevec
IMO Automation is not the way to go. It is for other things. Rather than deal with smaller more fiddly aspects within a clip, automation can be used more for what it does well and that is making smoother changes here and there on tracks over time. Or just turn the odd section up or down as required. Automation can do fiddly things but then you needs lots of nodes to do it. With clip gain you just cut the odd things and separate them and tweak clip gains to suit. The thing is once you have levelled and evened things up clip gain wise, automation is actually rarely required. One less thing to do.

 
Definitely a case of YMMV...   I usually don't find selecting regions of clips, splitting those clips, and then dragging gain envelopes up or down any more efficient than selecting regions of an automation envelope (in a lane) and dragging it up or down instead. 
 
I do use clip gain envelopes in the way you've described, but for specific purposes - clip gain changes affect the level routed to track FX so can change the end results when using FX like compression or amp sims.   But that can be a good thing depending on the circumstances. 
 
Fiddly clip splitting + clip gain changes or fiddly volume envelope changes.   Fiddly is fiddly to me.  
 
2013/05/22 08:49:22
Jeff Evans
What I like is the clip visual representation eg waveform height does change and it is with this you can go along and easily raise up waveforms that look a little low or drop ones down that appear a little high. You will soon hear if your clip gain change sounds natural. Sometimes it may not and it also quick and easy to reset clip gain back to 0dB.

By doing this you are going a long way to track levels being very consistent especially feeding into FX which everything comes after clip gain. The need for further automation is reduced and when I use automation it is usually for easy and simple moves here and there.

Breaking into smaller clips is also easy (in Studio One) and only requires one keystroke to bring up the cut tool You can snap to grid easily or make fine cuts anywhere.

I have found at least after using this facility I have really grown to like it and depend on it a lot. Under pressure when mixing with time constraints too if a little section of a track gets a tiny bit lost it is so quick to make a separate clip and raise it up 3 db or so (or so it visually matches the other parts on the track) all on your main edit window and you are done.

If you work using the K system and you have chosen a ref level of -14 dB then most of the time you have got an additional 14 dB of clip gain which can be added without clipping and this is a lot. The amount of positive clip gain you have depends on how transient your material is.
2013/05/22 09:22:14
benjaminfrog
Hi, californiamusic. I've submitted this as a feature request. I encourage you to do so as well - if you haven't already. The more voices they hear, presumably, the more likely they are to add it.
2013/05/22 10:40:50
californiamusic
As Jeff said.. the ability to "See" the waveform getting smaller or larger and being able to visually match area's is so helpful.  When I write a volume change now, I have to go back and listen to see if I'm in the ballpark then re-adjust  ; )
2013/05/22 11:35:14
gerberbaby
Everybody, literally everbody I know who is an established pro, uses the clip gain feature ala visual waveform in PT. This is the single most obvious flaw along with the efx bin that exists in Sonar. Being able to match levels visually on the waveform is crucial to efficiently comping parts and getting a balanced level befrore processing. if people want to defend a poorly designed faded green dotted automation line as even remotely the same then this is laughable. I am begging for cakewalk to add this feature along with modular efx bin with cells like PT. 
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