I usally do mastering in Soundforge, using Waves L2 or L3 and some good linear EQ first...somewhere I read that Sonar have certain " limiting" or distortion avoid technology(sorry about my english) implemented into the audio, track, bus engine...

I use Slate's FG-X when i master. Nothing when mixing.

bitflipper: While I do have a fair understanding of limiters, I certainly would never claim to be an expert on them.
In my experience, once I turn a limiter on on my mix, frequency relationships tend to change a bit. So, I have gotten into the habit of mixing through a limiter at about midway in my mix process so I have an idea of what's gonna happen to things. Now, I will A-B limiter off - limiter on, just so I'm not just mixing blindly , only to face a big surprise after I finish mixing and turn on the limiter.
In my world, for the music I tend to mix mostly, a limiter is a neccesary evil.
Obviously, different limiters have different "sounds". Analog emulations, "warm" settings, etc. So, each imparts a different feel to the mix.
I have used Waves L3 and wasn't fond of what it does in the top end.
I have used the Sonnox Oxford Limiter and love it but, not into the iLock thing.
I tried the Sonar Tube leveler and whatever that other limiter is that comes with Sonar and found them to be too dirty/muddy sounding
So, I'm curious as to what other folks are finding as solutions.
Didn't mean to start a war over what's right and what's wrong (as so often seems to happen on these forums), just curious, that's all. 

Jeff etc. nails it on the head.  Mastering, traditionally, is a different critter than mixing.  If you wait X amount of time after mixing, and you use a different program, you have a much better chance of hearing the song differently and, hopefully, doing a better master job.  It is two different hats and we trick ourselves.

For my own stuff (mine or friends recording here at home) I burn a cd of stuff every week or sooner.  I listen to it on my home system while cooking or working in the other room or reading in the same one; I put it in the car when I'm driving errands or the hour long ride up to the ranch.  All that helps me hear stuff I miss or overly obsess about in the studio.

Of course, that is just one man's opinion.  I'm sure plenty of people mix and master at a go, and if it works for them, great.  I just get better milage but splitting the jobs up.

@

I think if you want an excellent limiter I recommend the Concrete Limiter for the PC from CW.
   

What Rod is saying is interesting in that he is finding the sound changes with the limiter in and yet I am finding the exact opposite. I think with something as classy as PSP Xenon what happens when I turn it on is basically nothing! Except the track just gets louder by 6 or 7 dB.

I turn up my mix 6 or 7 dB in the room and the exact same thing happens. The mix just gets louder.

I wonder why that is and yet other limiters are capable of changing the sound. Wouldn't you think then that the limiters that are doing that might be inferior to one that simply leaves the mix well alone. Or better way of putting it, those limiters are adding something. I know that Danny for example prefers the Waves limiter on certain styles even over the PSP which I also find very interesting too. He must like what it is doing to that genre of mix and I don't doubt him for a minute.

I was mastering a track recently that I could not quite get right using the PSP and Danny told me the Waves would have nailed it. Except that it was several hundred dollars and I just was not prepared to spend it at the time. I ended up with a fine result from the PSP but as Danny says I might have really nailed it with the Waves limiter. It is obvious I am going to need both if that sort of thing comes up again. The Waves I think just crunches I mix I guess in a very desirable manner and this mix was crunchy to start with. Most of the material I have been using the PSP on is very clean and pristine so that is obviously what it likes most.

I always track into slight stereo bus compression (like 1.5/ ratio setting at 2db reduction max) followed by Fab Filter (transparent setting) Limiter set at -.05 db peak and touching 1db reduction sporadically to whack stray peaks.  Good realtime limiter showing RMS and peak so you can see as you go the trouble areas. This way I have an "idea" how everything is gonna gel together...and it usually reveals low frequencies bandits I didnt catch earlier. 

gerberbaby


I always track into slight stereo bus compression (like 1.5/ ratio setting at 2db reduction max) followed by Fab Filter (transparent setting) Limiter set at -.05 db peak and touching 1db reduction sporadically to whack stray peaks.  Good realtime limiter showing RMS and peak so you can see as you go the trouble areas. This way I have an "idea" how everything is gonna gel together...and it usually reveals low frequencies bandits I didnt catch earlier. 

When you say you track which is meant to mean record how are you recording your compression. You do know that Sonar can not print FX while recording? If you are using a compressor before the signal goes to your A/D converter then that will work. 

@bitflipper: I just included the Redbook label to indicate where the 44.1 kHz/16 bit spec came from. With "only" 16 bits to work with, that's 32768 bits discrete signal strength steps for positive voltage, 32768 for negative. For strong signals that's fine, but for very soft portions or tracks recorded at low levels, the A/D converters don't have enough bits (steps) to record a waveform accurately. http://www.recordingmag.c...esourceDetail/336.html

So signals which cover a small amount of the available dynamic range are not accurately recorded, resulting in quantization artifacts (the correct term--I couldn't come up with it above and used "stairstep" instead).

As for what it has to do with limiting, I was just going into too much detail over choices about setting levels. I recorded a lot of classical music back when my CD burner cost me $600 (Cakewalk Pro Audio 4.5, 1996!), and I tried to record my performers as hot as possible without distorting, so that I didn't run into these quantization problems at pianissimo passages. Sopranos especially could get really loud, and really soft. Then these tracks with high max values didn't leave me much headroom at mix time (thus limiters).

I know, it probably doesn't speak much to the original post, I just like talking about these musical choices. :)

On my master buss I use the PC Concrete limiter but that's just as a safety net not for raising levels.

The "mastering" stage I do separately for reasons already stated elsewhere here, and then I use either PSP's Xenon or the PC CCL. Xenon is excellent but a little more complicated to get the best out of. The CCL is pretty good as well but much easier to use.