Right. I have no problem doing MIDI bass and drums which I've played but if I creating a piano or orchestral piece it's a lot harder and kind of crummy. I'll get better at it though... I hope. ;-)

That's why I avoid strings... I suck... 

I find it educational looking at/listening to the various string configurations in that DSF pack we got with X2. Just seeing the different voicings has given me some clues as to how a traditional composer might approach things.

Big plus 1 here...

Jim Roseberry

............................................Generally speaking, to program realistic MIDI parts, you have to be able to think like a bass player, guitar player, drummer, etc. 

If you have skills playing bass, guitar, drums, etc... sometimes it's just quicker/easier to record the real thing.

FWIW, I tend to simply call on m8s to play parts if it is REALLY critical to the project...if not I am happy enough to play the parts myself...... but like Jim, I would have ZIP patience to go the step-edit PRV method...

I'd give up after about 4 bars and go and do the gardening!

I disagree a little with some of this--but that's why there's chocolate and vanilla.  If the virtual drums are real drum samples and you program good parts, there is no inherent reason it cannot sound as good as a drummer.
 
The question, though, is whether you will think of parts that are as good as the drummer will.  I think up better parts than some drummers and not as good parts as some drummers.
 
I have not been happy with loops, either audio or MIDI.  It seems they never have the exact feel I want, or they are too busy, or the dynamic range is too great, or they do not match the bass part I want, etc.

For a recent song, I thought my drum part was too plain.  I asked myself "How would Ringo play this?"  I listened to "Ticket to Ride."  My part ended up being nothing like "Ticket to Ride" but it broke me out of my block and caused me to do some things that I actually think Ringo would have done on the song.  (For the song in question, Ringo was a good choice.  That is not always the answer for every song. )

I agree about the loops and grooves, konradh. They are either too simplistic or busy in all the wrong ways. They can be alright starting points but I've just started programming my own. It's good practice anyway. BTW... there is a video on Groove3 about "thinking like a drummer". I didn't get around to it before my free month was up but it might be something to look at for those who are interested in that sort of thing.

daveny5

ive done it both ways and I still think prv will allow you to make a midi drum line sound real as possible with not much effort at all

C'mon....maybe a basic rock and roll drum beat, but you can't do anything even close to the skills of a real drummer without using audio drum loops. You can't even do a convincing roll with MIDI. 

this comment shows your lack of use in the piano roll.
you've never made a convincing roll in the piano roll? serious?
though between this and your first comment im very confused.
 
this is what you said "It helps if you have a MIDI keyboard that allows you to play the parts as you record them into Sonar."
correct ?
 
if you think you can bang out a better drum roll using your fingers on a keyboard VS. editing by hand in the piano roll, have at it. lol.
 
 

I've tried midi drum pads, midi keyboards, and the prv. The best sounding drum parts the I myself can come up with (I'm a bassist not a drummer) is using the prv. Latency is generally the creativity killer. Although these may not be the most realistic sounding it's way better than anything I can bang out on a percussion tool. Varying the velocities in the prv, and using a drum synth that is velocity driven (changes the drum sample based on the volume) can make for some really convincing drums.

what makes midi triggered drums sound realistic is the flaws, the human feel,(some notes are louder than others)
the tempo slightly drifts between 1/100's of the beat.

I did 4 videos on this, from drum triggering to editing to using a keyboard to hand tap.
the only thing better than a midi drum kit is a real kit.
but some of us don't have this luxury, either our kids are sleeping in the other room or we just don't have a kit.
this thread has gone array and a stray from the op original question.
think about it.

he wanted to know about tutorials on (making realistic-sounding performances for drums, bass, etc. using soft synths? )

myself and a couple other people have given the op useful resources, the rest sounds like an argument over digital vs audio.