OK I have started to manage to do the recording of my band  now I want to learn a bit more about recording for myself at home. I have a small master keyboard that I used to use with a midi module (Yamaha MU50) and I think I should be able to plug the keyboard into the midi bit of my UA-25 EX and use the sounds in sonar and play/record them via my keyboard and if my thinking is right on this  Q1.  Is there any downloads or infact anything in Sonar that are good samples of Bass i.e like a fender Precission or jazz or any other Bass if there are I can sell my Bass guitar which sits here gathering dust  (I am not a Bass guitar player but a 6 string merchant and only have the Bass so I can record if needed).
 
Q2. I have been recording the drummer with the band now supposing I or he did not like the sound of his snare or toms is there a way of converting the audio I have recorded to trigger midi notes so I can play drums from sonar or easy drummer or my mu50/DD65?
 
Question 3 how do I get Melodyn to load in sonar or is it simply better to use V vocal (if so please expect more daft questions)
 
Cheers
 
Bob

We need more info. Which version of Sonar are you using? If you have Dimension LE or Pro? If you have Dimension there are many very useable bass sounds in there. Although, I would not sell my bass unless it just sounds terrible. Recording a real bass with an amp simulator goes a long way. You just can't beat the sound of an instrument in a player's hands. To replace drums you will need a drum replacement tool. There are a few of those available on the web. Drumagog comes to mind. There are many others that work just as nicely. Toontracks has a nice one. If you use the convert audio to midi tool it may work for your drum editing but it is quite a chore trying to get a clean enough track to do this.

Yes, if your external midi module can be connected, and is added as a midi device in Sonar Preferences, then you can trigger it from within Sonar.  

I do not know which version of Sonar you are referring to.  I happen to have the Producer Edition, and it comes with several soft synths that have lots of different bass sounds (along with all kinds of other ones too).  The Cakewalk site lists the synths and effects that come with each version of Sonar, if that is any help to you.

I have no knowledge of anything Melodyne, although other will likely add their thoughts on it, versus V-Vocal.  I use V-Vocal - and am rudimentary at it at best, but it fits my needs.

Bob Bone

1. If you're using X1 Producer or later, you have a pretty decent Precision bass included with the Session Instruments Bass. If you're on SONAR 8 or 8.5 you'll have the full Dimension Pro, which has several usable basses. If you're on SONAR 5 or later you'll have the lite version of Dim Pro, which also has basses. If none of these are adequate and you have money to spend, buy Spectrasonics' Trilian.

2. Yes, as long as you have individual tracks for kick, snare and toms and good separation you'll be able to convert those hits to MIDI data and trigger a drum synth such as EZDrummer or Session Drummer with them. If your drums are already mixed onto a stereo track, it's harder but not impossible - you'll probably want to invest in some software designed specifically for that purpose, such as Drumagog.

3. Being new to the process, I think you will find V-Vocal easier to use than Melodyne. It's already in SONAR, so there's no additional expense. It's not nearly as good as Melodyne, but you'll want to keep your pitch editing to an absolute minimum for now anyway. All pitch correction should be approached cautiously at first, under the assumption that it can easily do more harm than good.

Hi Sorry guys did not say what I was using it is Sonar X2 Studio so if I plug in my midi keyboard it should be possible to find a Bass that will suit. I hear where you are coming from Sidroe about the Bass but I am getting crowded out with guitars and just need something to lay idea's down that sounds reasonable like a bass so if it is any good I can get my bassist to come along with either an overwater or Fender.

I will have a look at the various options with the drums although I might have an uphill struggle as although the Snare and the kick is on separate tracks the rest of the kit is in stereo from the 2 overhead condensers.

The V Vocal would be to correct the Vocal I have been recording the band with my Zoom R16 but I will take my Yamaha AW1600 along next time as it does have pitch shift and it does have controls for this as I do not want to overcook it and get one of our vocalists sounding like T pain on steroids although it would be funny to observe their countenance if I did. Here is a link to a vocal that the band recorded that I want to correct



http://soundcloud.com/bigbob63/white-room

Cheers

Bob

That's a hard song to sing, even for ol' Jack himself. But that performance doesn't really cry out for extensive pitch correction. V-Vocal should be up to the task. Just be careful to adjust only those notes that truly need it, as judged by ear alone rather than by looking at the V-Vocal graphic. I can't stress that enough: ignore the graphical display! All that vocal really needs is some level riding and compression.

BTW, I hear why you're looking into drum replacement for the toms. Those sound like oatmeal boxes! But most do, which is why drum replacement is pretty common in the world of commercial recording, even though producers are reluctant to admit it.

Just my opinion. 

If you were to loan your guitar to someone who doesn't know how to play, it will sound bleh.. Same thing applies to someone who doesn't know how to play keyboard, better yet, someone who doesn't know how to play a bass line on a keyboard. With that said, don't go chasing sounds, you can get lost in that rabbit hole. As mentioned, Dimension has some sounds that should do well. The Mu50 should also have some good sounds. So, the key is practice. 

However, I agree with the others, for traditional bass sounds, it's hard to beat the real thing. 

As far as drum replacements go, drumagog is a good suggestion. However, if we're just talking about a hit here or there, it's probably just as easy to cut & past the sample where you need it. Or, you & your drummer friend can spend a little time learning how to tune the drum, mic the drum, track the drum & process the drum to get the sound you're looking for. I think that will help you out in the long run. 

V-Vocal vs Melodyne.... Melodyne is deep & it's expensive. Play around with V-Vocal & find out if it can do what you need it to do. Melodyne does a lot of extra stuff, that can come in real handy, but a foundation.. a solid foundation in V-Vocal will help you get the most out of it. 

bigbob63


I hear where you are coming from Sidroe about the Bass but I am getting crowded out with guitars and just need something to lay idea's down that sounds reasonable like a bass so if it is any good I can get my bassist to come along with either an overwater or Fender.


Cheers

Bob

Forget what I said about the Bass earlier, you've got a good plan. 

Thanks for the help everyone I will have a play with V Vocal as for the drums I will play around with the various options suggested. You are right Bitflipper about the sound of the Toms the trouble with his toms when we first tried to record is they droned and needed some dampening as they were basically robbing the Bass player of his frequency apart from sounding crap anyway an old trick we used to do was to put tea towels over the toms which dampened them and gave them a bit more click which sounded fine for my part but drummer said it took the life out of the toms at which point (this was about 5 hours into trying to set up a drum mix) the Bass player arrived and complained about the toms so on went the tea towels and in the mix this sounded a bit better to the rest of the band as far as the recorded sound was concerned. At the time we were using a separate mixer 16/4/2 which was going into 2 tracks stereo on the recorder and each of the 4 toms were miked up. After experimenting a bit and advise the drummer had sort from a former member of Ozzy Osborns band that happens to live in the glen we decided that it sounded better if we got rid of the mixer and used 4 tracks to record direct into the R16 2 stereo overheads and one mic for the snare and the kick drum that way I could add reverb/compression to the snare if needed. The drummer also got gel pads to put on the toms which you heard in the recording but to me they sound as you describe so I am out of options re how to record the drums at the moment so am trying to turn to the sample/ midi solution.
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Fortunately, your problem with the drums is just a tonal issue and can be fixed by overlaying sampled drums. AudioSnap can be used to detect hits and turn them into MIDI notes. Just do it where the toms are prominent, then go into the PRV and edit out the irrelevant hits (hats, for example). 

With a little patience you'll end up with a MIDI representation of the kick, snare and toms, or just the toms if that's all you want. Take some midrange out of the samples you'll be laying on top of the real toms, maybe beef up the low end. IOW, let the sampled drums fill in just what's missing from the acoustic drums. A bit of ambient reverb will help them fit in so that your "cheat" is not obvious.