Bristol_Jonesey


What's your perception of the "right track" then Funkybot?

Just curious to know where you feel the X series is lacking compared to 8.5

Off the top of my head...


Things they did poorly:


1. I think making the console GUI larger was a wrong-step direction. If you want to improve my workflow, find a way to show me more at once, not less. 

2. Removing the customization options: bad idea.


3. Take lanes: right idea, bad implementation. This clearly isn't finished, or it was poorly thought out (and I liked it at first).

4. The confusing Snap and event duration approach: bad idea.

5. Matrix View/Step Sequencer: does Sonar also need to be Fruity Loops AND Live? These just seemed like add-ons, and an afterthought, which made adding them a poor decision IMO. Either find a better way to do these more robustly, or leave them to other DAW's/plugins. 

6. General Rule: how much stuff has Cakewalk released over the years that had a version 2? Audio Snap, Step Sequencer, (what will almost certainly be) Take Lanes. Cakewalk should not release a feature until it's been fully realized. In software development, it's always cheaper to do something once, than to do it twice.

7. Audio Snap: how did they possible make it harder to use and even more confusing in version 2? Didn't think it was possible. Version 1 is a breeze by comparison.

8. No identify: I already mentioned Sonar trying to be like Live and Fruity Loops, let's not forget about the Studio One inspired UI changes.

Things they did well in X1/2:

1. Screensets
2. Browser (this is 90% good IMO, still some room for improvement
3. Smart tools
4. Getting more done in one window
5. Great PRV

Things they should have done but didn't

1. Fix long-standing bugs: there's no excuses for the "Disk May Be Full" error, or how often projects will fail to save and become corrupt.

2. Staff View: they should have at least left it alone. It's harder to use now. Before I'd enter a keyboard shortcut for duration and go at it. Now it's far more finicky.

3. Real Instrument Tracks: Sonar should really have real instrument tracks.

4. Real VST support: Sonar is still using a wrapper at it's core. VST support is not baked in. This is probably part of what makes Sonar so unstable, and why developers often dislike it as a DAW (as they have to work around Sonar specific "features")

5. Improved Audio Routing: really guys? I still can't route a VSTi output to an audio track input? I'm not even asking to send one track's audio output to multiple tracks audio-input (ok maybe I am).

6. Better plug-in navigation: Studio One and Logic allow users to navigate from effect to effect without having to close the current effect's GUI. This is a huge time-saver. Why it's not in Sonar is beyond me.

7. Not making things easier: if you need to explain it, you're doing it wrong. How many Snap settings posts have there been here? How many Audio Snap posts? How many menus and sub-menus does Sonar have? How many features make you go hmmm...

I could probably go on, but that's a list of things off the top of my head, and I have to run to work...

@Funkybot: I think the "Things they should have done but didn't" section isn't fair because it's not comparing X series and 8.5. As you know, there are so many things that S1 also should have but don't, such as track templates, staff view, separate timing/velocity randomize options, MIDI effects, customizable drum maps, instrument definition, clip lock, MIDI panic button, etc. etc.

But I strongly agree with you about the GUI size and take lanes. 


Edit: BTW, what is real instrument tracks?

I think that's a very balanced and well put together post Funkybot.

I hope GP reads and learns from it... :-)

I heard straight from the bakers that the next upgrade for loyal long time customers will ship with a box of the finest Belgian chocolates as an apology for all the inconvenience we've gone through putting up with bugs and stuff.

That's nice, no?

If there's one thing I hate, that's buying the latest version of software, and then 20 days later the new version suddenly comes out with no free upgrade to the latest version. Hmmm, that happened to me with MC6 this month.

I think software companies need to clearly show when a new release is coming out at the point of sale, so that customers don't get duped into buying an outdated product.

I think software companies need to clearly show when a new release is coming out at the point of sale, so that customers don't get duped into buying an outdated product.

 
I agree, but Cakewalk already do this with Sonar when a major release is pending, and in the past have offered a free upgrade.  Point releases have been free for the most part (can't remember if 8.5 was an exception?) That may not apply to the MC range though...
 
You can always be pretty certain though that the release you bought yesterday is already being developed for a new version today.  Same with your car, phone, tablet, telly or washing powder really...

...will ship with a box of the finest Belgian chocolates

 
I think that's a fine idea.    

5. Matrix View/Step Sequencer: does Sonar also need to be Fruity Loops AND Live? These just seemed like add-ons, and an afterthought, which made adding them a poor decision IMO. Either find a better way to do these more robustly, or leave them to other DAW's/plugins.

Let's not forget that Matrix has been around since P5 (2003??) and Step Sequencer since sonar 7.  these aren't new to the x-series.

Things they should have done but didn't 

1. Fix long-standing bugs: there's no excuses for the "Disk May Be Full" error, or how often projects will fail to save and become corrupt.

agreed

2. Staff View: they should have at least left it alone. It's harder to use now. Before I'd enter a keyboard shortcut for duration and go at it. Now it's far more finicky.

this is why i have keybindings for note durations

3. Real Instrument Tracks: Sonar should really have real instrument tracks.

not quite sure what you mean here.  instrument tracks in studio one seem to be the same as the way sonar handles them.  

4. Real VST support: Sonar is still using a wrapper at it's core. VST support is not baked in. This is probably part of what makes Sonar so unstable, and why developers often dislike it as a DAW (as they have to work around Sonar specific "features") 

don't know what you mean by specific "features" - i haven't seen anything that is not in another daw...

5. Improved Audio Routing: really guys? I still can't route a VSTi output to an audio track input? I'm not even asking to send one track's audio output to multiple tracks audio-input (ok maybe I am). 

you can route vst output to other audio tracks... what i think you mean is for recording purposes - then, yes i think the routing in reaper is probably one of the best i've used and agreed studio one does this very well indeed.

6. Better plug-in navigation: Studio One and Logic allow users to navigate from effect to effect without having to close the current effect's GUI. This is a huge time-saver. Why it's not in Sonar is beyond me. 

agreed

Funkybot

4. Real VST support: Sonar is still using a wrapper at it's core. VST support is not baked in. This is probably part of what makes Sonar so unstable, and why developers often dislike it as a DAW (as they have to work around Sonar specific "features")

What makes you think that?

Funkybot


5. Improved Audio Routing: really guys? I still can't route a VSTi output to an audio track input? I'm not even asking to send one track's audio output to multiple tracks audio-input (ok maybe I am). 

Sorry, I'm a little new with the program. Can you speak more about this point? Are you saying that we can't record something we're playing on a VST in Sonar? For instance, if I'm manually playing something on my keys which is routed though Dim Pro or another VST, it can't be recorded?...