• SONAR
  • alternatives to Line 6 UX2 and usb latency by using audio in on a pci sound card? (p.2)
2013/04/29 11:20:51
_Angus_
  Jim said:
The UX2 is a USB 1.1 audio interface.
As such, it uses a large hidden safety buffer (which raises round-trip latency) to help prevent dropouts/glitches.
If you monitor via the on-board hardware DSP, latency is low (like playing thru a POD).



Sorry, I'm trying to understand that, but not quite managing. :)

Its the terms used and my inexperience.
Are you saying when I use the UX2 I can change the way I hear the sound back (monitor it)to reduce the drop-outs I'm getting? Monitor through the UX2's headphone socket and reduce the usb traffic? Apologies, I'm not understanding.

Kev, Bob - thanks, will look at the suggestions.
2013/04/29 11:57:41
digi2ns
Im not familiar with X1 Essentials but are both the 2496 and UX2 checked in your Preferences for Devices as being used.  

Try unchecking it all except for the UX2 and see if your dropouts stop. Im kinda thinking along the same lines as Davey and Jim.
2013/04/29 12:03:07
Jim Roseberry
Its the terms used and my inexperience. Are you saying when I use the UX2 I can change the way I hear the sound back (monitor it)to reduce the drop-outs I'm getting? Monitor through the UX2's headphone socket and reduce the usb traffic? Apologies, I'm not understanding.



As a USB-1.1 device, the UX2 can't achieve the lower round-trip latency of newer USB-2 audio interfaces.
Limited bandwidth by comparison...
To try to ensure glitch-free playback, the unit uses a large (hidden) safety-buffer.
If you monitor via the UX2's onboard DSP (refered to as Tone-port I believe), you'll be able to monitor with the UX2's onboard EFX/processing with minimal latency.  In this scenario, you can increase the ASIO buffer size, and it won't affect monitoring latency.
If you try to play in realtime thru 3rd-party VST plugins, that's where you're experience full round-trip latency (which will be too high for effective use).

Round-trip latency is the sum of the following:
  • ASIO input buffer
  • ASIO output buffer
  • Latency of the A/D and D/A converters
  • The driver's hidden safety buffer


Even with the ASIO buffer size set down to 64-samples, I believe the UX2's round-trip latency is somewhere between 12-24ms.
Even if it were completely glitch-free, that's too high for comfortable tracking.
2013/04/29 17:10:31
Goddard
Jim Roseberry

Its the terms used and my inexperience. Are you saying when I use the UX2 I can change the way I hear the sound back (monitor it)to reduce the drop-outs I'm getting? Monitor through the UX2's headphone socket and reduce the usb traffic? Apologies, I'm not understanding.

If you monitor via the UX2's onboard DSP (refered to as Tone-port I believe), you'll be able to monitor with the UX2's onboard EFX/processing with minimal latency.  In this scenario, you can increase the ASIO buffer size, and it won't affect monitoring latency.


The Pod Studio UX2 is basically just a USB audio interface which acts as a dongle for enabling Line 6's Pod Farm fx software.


Line 6's "Tone Direct" feature is misleadingly named, due to that their "recording" interfaces like the OP's Pod Studio UX2 do not actually have any onboard DSP fx processing, but rather, all the fx are host-based (performed by software running on the computer) and thus subject to significant latency when monitoring the effected sound even through the ASIO drivers using "Tone Direct".

This is the big downside of the reliance on the Pod Farm s/w for providing the fx, compared to, say, playing guitar through a basic Pod fx unit (one actually having onboard DSP fx) and feeding the Pod's outputs into your audio interface while monitoring it via the Pod's headphone output or your interface's "low latency" input monitoring facility.


Iirc, it should however be possible to monitor the "dry" (non-effected) guitar sound more-or-less directly with the UX2 without noticeable latency (this may need to be set up in the Pod Farm software's monitoring mixer), although then you won't get the "feel" of playing through the fx. Dunno though, might be wrong about that, didn't really spend any more time with those Line 6 budget interfaces once I'd realized all the fx ran on the host PC.
2013/04/29 17:12:21
_Angus_
  Mike, I don't think its possible to select the UX2 drivers and any others at the same time. I haven't done so, and have gone so far as to physically remove the audiophile card from the pc, which did improve the UX2's performance a bit.
2013/04/29 17:16:58
Jim Roseberry
The Pod Studio UX2 is basically just a USB audio interface which acts as a dongle for enabling Line 6's Pod Farm fx software. Line 6's "Tone Direct" feature is misleadingly named, due to that their "recording" interfaces like the OP's Pod Studio UX2 do not actually have any onboard DSP fx processing, but rather, all the fx are host-based (performed by software running on the computer) and thus subject to significant latency when monitoring the effected sound even through the ASIO drivers using "Tone Direct".



The processing IS native based, but the latency is significantly lower using Tone Direct rather than straight ASIO.  
Latency using Tone Direct is no worse than playing thru a hardware POD... but (again) the only EFX/processing you can monitor at lower latency is the "onboard" included stuff from Line-6.
For anything other than Tone-Direct monitoring, the UX2 has huge latency.

2013/04/29 17:21:44
Jim Roseberry
Sorry, I'm trying to understand that, but not quite managing. :) Its the terms used and my inexperience. Are you saying when I use the UX2 I can change the way I hear the sound back (monitor it)to reduce the drop-outs I'm getting? Monitor through the UX2's headphone socket and reduce the usb traffic? Apologies, I'm not understanding.



If you monitor using Tone-Direct based Line-6 effects/processing, you can monitor that at reasonable latency.
Make sure you're not trying to monitor 3rd-party EFX/processing (like Amplitube 3).
You should be able to run the UX2's ASIO buffer size at 512-samples... and play/monitor in realtime thru the included Tone-Direct Amp/effect models... without glitches.  If you can't do this without glitches, then you need to have a look at your machine.
2013/04/29 17:22:37
_Angus_
  Goddard said:
This is the big downside of the reliance on the Pod Farm s/w for providing the fx, compared to, say, playing guitar through a basic Pod fx unit (one actually having onboard DSP fx) and feeding the Pod's outputs into your audio interface while monitoring it via the Pod's headphone output or your interface's "low latency" input monitoring facility.

This is pretty much my original question. My only reason for having the UX2 is so I can record my guitar playing (in Sonar) using the UX2 (Tone Port)amp sounds.
Am I going to be better off recording my guitar in Sonar using a Pod 2.0 with its on-board amp effects and connecting that to my audiophile sound card?
2013/04/29 21:27:30
Kev999
Although USB1.1 is old technology, it is more than adequate for streaming a 24-bit 44.1kHz stereo audio signal.  So don't get the misleading impression that low latency is impossible with a UX2.  I get 5.8ms easily without ever experiencing any dropouts and I find this perfectly acceptable.  How low do you need to go?
2013/04/29 21:34:01
daveny5
his is pretty much my original question. My only reason for having the UX2 is so I can record my guitar playing (in Sonar) using the UX2 (Tone Port)amp sounds. Am I going to be better off recording my guitar in Sonar using a Pod 2.0 with its on-board amp effects and connecting that to my audiophile sound card?



In my opinion you can just use the UX2, but don't connect the USB cable and use it as a soundcard. If you prefer the effects in the Pod over the UX2, then go with that, but don't expect to use the Pod as a soundcard, just as an effects box. 
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