pops/clicks during multitrack recording/playback using Sonar X2a but not Reaper

SONAR
pops/clicks during multitrack recording/playback using Sonar X2a but not Reaper (p.2)

2013/04/24 14:18:38

jaws44

Last week i was experiencing glitches whenever i play a soft synth, and it turned out to be that i had accidentally unchecked "Use Multiprocessing Engine", under Preferences/Playback and Recording.

When i rechecked it everything was back to normal

2013/04/24 15:03:29

robert_e_bone

I saw a Sound on Sound article from 2009 that talked about there being problems with using 2 of those interfaces together, despite the manufacturer claims that it would work.

Don't know if that is in fact the case or not, but have you tried it with a single one of those? (just to eliminate that as an issue).

Also, have you tried using one of the older drivers? Perhaps the 2.4 version - just to see what happens.

Also, perhaps there is a PCI conflict of some sort. is there another slot you could plug into? (again just to see what happens).

I wish I had more ideas - I avoid Fire Wire devices like the plague, because USB just seems to work so well for me. (I am well aware that a whole bunch of folks have zero issues with Fire Wire, but there are also a bunch that do have issues - mainly from chip sets I think).

Anyways - I hope any of the above helps, and in any case I hope that some kind of solution is found for your problems. Sorry for such a frustrating experience for you.

Bob Bone

2013/04/24 18:37:47

swamptooth

i saw this on the focusrite website about using mix control 3.0:

[font="'lucida grande', helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204)"]• No longer requires use of Windows legacy Firewire driver[font="'lucida grande', helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204)"] (Due to this, users who also use the Focusrite Liquid Mix are recommended to ensure that both products are run on separate FireWire buses. If this is not possible then users are recommended to continue using Saffire Mix Control 2.4)

are you using 3.1?

2013/04/25 01:14:03

jeebustrain

swamptooth

i saw this on the focusrite website about using mix control 3.0:

[font="'lucida grande', helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204)"]• No longer requires use of Windows legacy Firewire driver[font="'lucida grande', helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204)"] (Due to this, users who also use the Focusrite Liquid Mix are recommended to ensure that both products are run on separate FireWire buses. If this is not possible then users are recommended to continue using Saffire Mix Control 2.4)

are you using 3.1?

Yes, I'm using current. I also at various points of troubleshooting a while back, played with using both the current and legacy firewire driver. Both interfaces are plugged into separate ports on the same card (as recommended). If any of this was an issue though, I would think I would have problems in Reaper as well. Regarding the other suggestion about PCI slots, I've moved things all over, added/removed USB devices, played with the DPC latency checker, disabled about every other thing in the device manager (individually while testing), updated/rolled back various device drivers (DPC latency checker helped me track an issue with my onboard nic driver). I've been chasing this issue since January, so I've pretty much run the gamut. I've been working with PCs professionally since 1998 in the IT industry, and have gone pretty flippin' deep with some of this stuff.

I only got to play with this a little bit tonight (kid duty - so it was limited). Last night when I was fiddling, I never restarted the PC, I just closed/reopened Sonar. Tonight, after a fresh boot, I went in and set my playback buffer to 2048. I closed/reopened and opened up my test project (with about 1 minute of a simple click tracked drum groove). No pops/clicks. I played it back about a 1/2 dozen times and nothing.

I probably won't get a chance to re-record my drums till the weekend, but I'm really sure that the combination of the few things I've done might have helped. I'll update this thread when I have new information. Thanks guys!

2013/04/25 08:32:17

KevinD

I also fought with a pop / click / dropouts for a long time with almost the identical setup as yours. Everything was buffered low, acting well, and running great except the annoying pops and clicks. I did some testing with LatencyMon and a few others and found it was my fancy new Nvdia graphics card causing a latency spike. I swapped it with a $40 Radeon card, and now all is fine. http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

2013/04/26 23:24:23

swamptooth

hey jeebus - have you tried these settings in aud.ini

FlushWriteBeforeRead=
<1 or 0>
Boolean
45
The default setting causes SONAR to perform disk reads (for audio playback) before attempting any disk writes (for audio recording). Overriding this value by setting it to 1 causes SONAR to attempt disk writes first. This yields the best results when you are attempting to record a large number of tracks at high latency.
FlushMultiple=<0 or 1>
Boolean
1213
This variable determines how SONAR performs writes to disk in cases where multiple inputs are being recorded simultaneously. The default setting causes SONAR to write all the data for all inputs all at once, and then wait for the entire set of writes to complete. Overriding this value by setting it to 0 causes SONAR to perform each input’s write separately, and wait for each individual write to complete before proceeding to the next one.

RealtimePreroll=<0 or 1>
Boolean
2021
This variable specifies whether preroll buffers are pumped as fast as possible or in real-time.
Prerolling in realtime may improve buffering and CPU load when using hardware DSP solutions such as the Universal Audio UAD-1 or Focusrite Liquid Mix.

2013/04/27 13:31:59

cswami

One time I was getting pops with SonarX2a-PE and realized that it was because I was using Sytrus VSTi and it is only (x86) and not (x64)Bits. It was Sonar's Bit Bridge which caused the Clicks. When I ran the same Sytrus VSTi in the (x86) Version of SonarX2-PE there was no noise. Just sayin', maybe this is relevant.

2013/04/28 19:10:47

jeebustrain

Hi - thanks for the idea cswami - Although I don't think this is the issue. It happens whether I am running everything dry or with effects. I'm also running the 32bit version of Sonar now, so Bit Bridge isn't even coming into the equation..

So I have some interesting developments on this front. So my buffer level "fix" did not really pan out after some extensive testing. So I spent a lot of yesterday diving into the system. I busted out LatencyMon (thanks KevinD) to take a look at my system drivers. Previously I'd only used DPC Latency Checker, which doesn't provide much detail. That sent me down the road of playing with my graphics card drivers (I have dual Nvidia cards - 500GTX and a 620 that are driving 3 monitors). LatencyMon found huge issues with the drivers. After some research, I found I wasn't the only one with that problem (like you Kevin). I went through a couple revisions and ended up loading the default Win7 VGA drivers to eliminate the driver. I was still having pops/dropouts.

So after a preemptive trip to MicroCenter this morning with a new ATI video card, I started testing again. Most of my high DPC hangs were with usbport.sys, wdf01000.sys, and the built-in atapi driver. So I removed all USB devices (short of a keyboard,mouse) and unplugged my internal BluRay drive. Still having problems (and LatencyMon telling me that I am). So I went into the BIOS, updated to latest version, turned off ALL power management and CPU scaling functionality, booted back into windows and made sure that all of my Windows Power items were set to maximum, disabled the power down checkbox in device manager for each of my USB root hubs. STILL having dropouts in Sonar. For giggles, I fired up reaper and played my multitrack test project (15 audio tracks, just like Sonar of me playing a simple groove with no effects). LatencyMon kept barking to me about problems with drivers/power management, etc, but it sounded absolutely fine.

So I was back to playing with Sonar. I happened to run across this thread: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1427501

I did a bit more reading about MMCSS and on a whim, disabled it. I restarted my test project (after a reboot) and ran LatencyMon. It still barked at me about my drivers, BUT playback was flawless. So I cued up a new project and recorded 48 bars of drums to a click track. Playback again was flawless, even though LatencyMon was complaining about my drivers.

Now this DAW system is only used for this purpose. I don't surf the internet, check Facebook, or watch movies (those are what my linux boxes are for). It's sole purpose in life is to run Sonar. If I didn't run Sonar, I would still be running Reaper in Linux, as I do on my laptop. Regardless of what LatencyMon tells me, as long as my audio doesn't pop/skip, I'm OK with things. From what I read about MMCSS, it's mainly for interacting with other audio systems to ensure thread priority. If I leave this off, do I run the risk of having problems when using a few soft synths within the confines of Sonar (Omnisphere, OPX, etc...)?

Swamptooth - I haven't messed with my aud.ini file, but if that is something that you guys think is worth exploring, I will. However, if disabling mmcss isn't super harmful and it fixes my issue (only time will tell), I'm happy with that.

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pops/clicks during multitrack recording/playback using Sonar X2a but not Reaper

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