Antares new Auto tune Live is ONLY available as VST3. Already new plugins that HAVE to have VST3 support or you can't use them. Cakewalk is ONLY limiting their own viability and ultimately affecting their OWN bottom line which in turn will only Limit what Cakewalk (who is already too limited in resources to make VST3 a priority despite NUMEROUS threads and forum requests and myself calling customer support) can do for us the customer. . Sonar x1 and all it's bugs has already been stifling enough, then throw in plugin functionality/compatibility. X2 is NOT looking very SEAMLESS or GENIUS. Sad to see Noel trying to defend the whole it can be done in 2.4, like the plug companies are going to move backwards. You're not going to go back and add console emulation to 8.53 which is STILL the most STABLE version making it a better candidate for it. No, instead you are fixing what SHOULD have been fixed/not broken in X1 and adding console emulation, charging, and calling it X2. Cakewalk is even making VST3 version of Z3ta 2. Vst 2.4 not good enough?

In the end VST 2.4 will just die out, and that day has come and it's soon.

You're talking out yer a$$, Freddie. You don't have a frickin' clue, but that doesn't stop you from arguing with Noel, of all people. Seriously?


VST 2.4 is not going to die out. Period. DAWs already support it. Do you think they're going to rip out the VST 2.4 code because it's no longer fashionable?


I will concede this one point to the VST3 evangelists: if all the plugin vendors decided to abandon VST 2.4 and sell only VST 3 products, then yes we'd be in trouble. But the same thing could be said about AAX, AU or RTAS. Are you losing sleep because SONAR doesn't support Audio Units and never will? Do you know there are AU-only plugins out there that you can't have?

Plugins are a small market. Software vendors must broaden that market as much as possible by offering multiple versions - 32 and 64-bit versions, VST, AU and RTAS versions, light/free/demo and full-featured versions, plugin and standalone versions. There are exactly two vendors in the world that might be so arrogant as to not do so: Steinberg and Waves. 

Let's not forget the salient point in all this, which is that VST X is an interface specification, nothing more. It sets the rules by which two pieces of software exchange data. That's all. It does not dictate what a plugin can or cannot do internally any more than TCP/IP dictates what you and I can type here. A well-designed interface is inherently extensible, meaning it's capable of being adapted to things the original designers didn't think of. VST 2.4 is extensible. There is no intrinsic reason it should ever become obsolete.

So no, VST 2.4 is not going to "die out". Even if it did, there is no basis to assume that VST3 would be its successor (other than "3" is a higher number than "2.4"). Rest easy, Freddie. You have nothing to worry about.

bitflipper


Plugins are a small market. Software vendors must broaden that market as much as possible by offering multiple versions - 32 and 64-bit versions, VST, AU and RTAS versions, light/free/demo and full-featured versions, plugin and standalone versions. There are exactly two vendors in the world that might be so arrogant as to not do so: Steinberg and Waves. 

You forgot Cakewalk. Or have they recently adapted their plugins to all listed formats? Yes, I'm aware of some (Rapture for example) but aside from the VSTi's how about the modules  etc.?

Vocalign via VST3 comes in handy... I hope one day Sonar users can enjoy... 

I also hope that Sonar users will one day be able to experience the bliss that a gapless audio engine offers...

Peace

Vocalign via VST3 comes in handy... I hope one day Sonar users can enjoy...

 
Based on what Noel wrote previously VST3 certainly is on their list.   Just not for X2.
 
As far as the continued discussion goes, one thing (among many) that I've taken away from this thread is that VST2.4 plugins and hosts still outweigh VST3 plugins and hosts.  IOW, the pure numbers still favor 2.4 which is what X2 will support.   But trends being what they are, that balance is likely to change over the next year or two.  So perhaps this is what CW knew all along and is why X2 isn't VST3 compliant.    But I think Noel also wrote something to that effect previously too, didn't he...   this thread is getting so long that it's getting more difficult to keep things straight. 

i think the fact that it is getting so many hits and getting so long might say something.

So, I have a things I'm curious about. VST3 seems useful, although, I'm not hungry for it. I don't buy a lot of outside plug-ins. 

John said developers choose what goes in to the product. In my experience the choice of what to include tends to be made by project managers and managers. Developers usually just estimate scope (read cost) of various features.

Keith said 'don't pass the zeros' to avoid processing on VST2.4. I thought that the most significant bit in floats was always presumed to be one so that you get one more bit out of however many you have. For this reason, floats have a positive and negative 0. In other words, absolute zero doesn't really exist in floats. Now, I'm sure you could round and not pass or implement logic around when to feed data to the plug in, which was his point. I could see some developers feeding the stream to the plugin regardless. Perhaps not Cakewalk.

I will say, that during fast bounces, even when only bouncing certain tracks, the fx on every track seem to impact the bounce speed. Perhaps I'm wrong on this. It just seems to be. In other words, if I bounce only 2 tracks out of 20, it will bounce faster if I delete all but the 2, assuming lots of fx on the other 18. I'm shooting from the hip here based on experience. So, would VST3s Fast Bounce faster?

And one of the comments on Steinberg.net mentions x64. I kinda thought that Sonar was a major leader in the x64 DAW world. I would think that making it easier for us x64 users to grow our x64 plugin base might make users of non x64 DAWs jealous. Just a guess.

You forgot Cakewalk. Or have they recently adapted their plugins to all listed formats? Yes, I'm aware of some (Rapture for example) but aside from the VSTi's how about the modules  etc.?

Rapture, Dimension Pro, Z3ta2 and Studio Instruments are all available as both VST and AU. I believe Rapture and Dim Pro are RTAS, too. Don't know about the others.

As for other modules, the Pro Channel stuff only works in SONAR, so there are no AU or RTAS versions. What else is there that they sell independently of SONAR? The only things I can think of that have limited versions are the old stuff, e.g. the Sonitus suite (32-bit only as a separate purchase) and Boost 11 (VST on PC only). There's that bass amp sim, which I know nothing about. 

I'd say Cakewalk has done a lot to address the most popular plugin interfaces, representing a major effort for a small company.

cclarry


This is why Waves has stated that, in the next Major Release VST 2.4 will
not be supported.

New topic please...this ones a dead horse...
History repeats itself...

Maybe a dead horse,but WHEN IS WAVES GOING TO lose VST 2.4????


I just spent a REAL lot[for me] on various bundles/deals,that a year ago at full price,would have been nearly 2K,so I'm pretty anxious if X2 is not going to let these rather expensive pictures of knobs dials,and sound shaping doo dads operate,especially if IT's GOING TO BE SOON!
Bob

bobguitkillerleft

Maybe a dead horse,but WHEN IS WAVES GOING TO lose VST 2.4????


I just spent a REAL lot[for me] on various bundles/deals,that a year ago at full price,would have been nearly 2K,so I'm pretty anxious if X2 is not going to let these rather expensive pictures of knobs dials,and sound shaping doo dads operate,especially if IT's GOING TO BE SOON!
Bob

Sonar will continue to support the Waves plugins you purchased for many years to come. IF, and I say IF, Waves discontinues creating VST2.4 compatible plugins it will have no effect on you unless you upgrade to those newer plugins in the future. The plugins you already purchased are good to go for now and the future.
 
There are a few features Sonar does not support in respect to the Waves plugins (you can't sidechain or use the Waves Surround Tools) but if this hasn't really impacted you yet it likely won't.
 
Cheers.