cclarry


The REAL winners in the DAW market are the ones that
offer ALL THE CURRENT TECHNOLOGIES ...

AND

That bring other GREAT new things to the table...

If Sonar did THIS....it would probably be knocking down
the competition RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE...

Instead...they choose to leave behind CURRENT industry standards
in favor of other minor benefits and new plugins, which can STILL
be purchased separately, in their full forms...


Cheers!

Hear hear!!! Still I love the Pro Channel though!

Mystic38


I think a mentality by some members of "we dont have it so we dont need it" or worse "i dont need it so you dont need it" is really quite depressing... are you listening to yourselves arguing against progress?..

There are in fact, plenty of things in Sonar alone i do not need.. (say staff view or matrix view).. should i now lobby to take them out?.. or indicate that it must be users skill at fault because those functions do not work correctly? ..no of course not..that would be absurd...

So to those members i say get a grip.. it is far better to have something than not to have it, and that is why sonar is a package.. and that is why the functionality grows and enhances at every release.

and p.s. in addition to long lists of vst3 supported items above.. there are also things that are VST3 ONLY... such as one of my synths.

+1
 
Well said.

anotherzen


No VST3.. no money from me. 

X2 looked really good, but with horrible customer support and prioritizing stupid bundling instead of price and innovation, i don't think i'll ever come back to Sonar. And the Early adopter e-mail i got.. Buy Sonar X2 now (that does not support what you need) and get this crappy String library that uses Dimension Pro...  i LOL'ed. Seriously, trying to buy me off with a terrible string library for one of the worst samplers i have ever used.. good luck with that.

Until VST3 comes, i will be in the competitors ringside, or should i say ringsides.. as most of the competition support it now, and has been for a while.

Sorry for the rant good people, but i have to voice my dissatisfaction with Cake on this matter. ^^

Don't be shy, tell us what you really think.

• horrible customer support - I have seen no evidence of this
• prioritizing stupid bundling  - Examples?
• instead of price - what's wring with the pricing?
• Buy Sonar X2 now (that does not support what you need) - No - apparently it doesn't support what YOU need
• get this crappy String library that uses Dimension Pro - tried it have you? And what's wrong with DP?
•  i LOL'ed. - good for you, you could probably do with a laugh
• most of the competition support it now - some do, some don't, it certainly isn't MOST
• Sorry for the rant good people - I don't think you are

If vst3 does not consume CPU when no signal present that's really smart. I know another DAW that lets you automate bypass of effects to eliminate unnecessary CPU consumption. That always made sense to me. If in fact that's how Vst3 functions automatically that would seem like number 1 priority in any DAW.

All cakewalk products have had this functionality since the 90's. Our DX sdk had an IDeferZeroFill interface that Ron thought of way back then. If anything I think this capability in VST3 came from there :) Additionally SONAR has always optimized to not stream through plugins that do not have an active audio stream. Only channels that have audio or are input monitored or have a synth feed actually pass through audio to plugins. That has been done from day one so its most certainly not something new you will get.

The huge misconception that many people advocating VST3 have is that the feature list posted is something you magically get for free by adopting the VST3 standard. VST3 is a plugin standard, nothing more nothing less. i.e like VST 2.4 all it does is publish a set of API's (a communications protocol) by which the DAW and plugin communicate. It facilitates a few new things like expression parameters and hierarchical parameter grouping, but its still up to the DAW to choose to implement these. Steinberg lists these because they are features they chose to do in their DAW. Nothing wrong with that but it most definitely doesn't mean that other DAW's will implement them - in the same way that VST2.4 has optional extensions. The other misconception is that the features in VST 3 are things unavailable to VST2. As I've said several times in the past - VST 2 may not be the prettiest API but it is extensible and pretty much anything in VST 3 could be accomplished in VST 2 with extensions. The entire prochannel API is written as a VST 2.4 extension for example and our requirements for these are not even met in VST 3.  In fact VST 3 could itself have been an extension to VST2 but Steinberg chose to redo the entire specification which requires an expensive rewrite from host vendors to support it. 

Anyway to summarize, support for VST3 is on the table for us. I cannot say when it will happen since it hasn't been scheduled in our product plan yet. We acknowledge that some plugin vendors in the future will ultimately choose to publish only VST 3 compatible versions (primarily to save development resources) or won't have the time to do things like sidechaining in VST 2.4 (which is possible and documentation published)  What I can say with certainty is that when we do VST3, you will not get any new functionality in SONAR other than the support for plugins that do not have equivalent VST 2.4 counterparts.

Freddie H

cclarry


The REAL winners in the DAW market are the ones that
offer ALL THE CURRENT TECHNOLOGIES ...

AND

That bring other GREAT new things to the table...

If Sonar did THIS....it would probably be knocking down
the competition RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE...

Instead...they choose to leave behind CURRENT industry standards
in favor of other minor benefits and new plugins, which can STILL
be purchased separately, in their full forms...


Cheers!

Hear hear!!! Still I love the Pro Channel though!

Me too Freddie!!!
 
I LOVE Sonar X1....

and I was REALLY hoping that X2 would have brought in VST3...
 
I still love it....but am disappointed that they would overlook such an important
industry improvement standard...and which could have put them UP QUITE A FEW NOTCHES
in the DAW wars..

Cheers!

bladetragic

Mystic38


I think a mentality by some members of "we dont have it so we dont need it" or worse "i dont need it so you dont need it" is really quite depressing... are you listening to yourselves arguing against progress?..

Agree 100%.  I'm very often annoyed by some of the attitudes here for this very reason.

+1
 
( the I don't need it ( or understand it) and have gotten by without it so YOU don't need it (or deserve it) mentallity here is VERY annoying
  and SOOO five minutes ago - LMFAO)

Steinberg developed the VST3 and VST2 SDKs, and after several versions of both Cubase and Nuendo have been released, they still can't get the two formats to play nice with each other, especially when it comes to presets. Steinberg also didn't play nice with everyone when VST3 was released, and this was after they helped shoot down a plug format that would have been open sourced and universal that was developed back when Ron Kuper was still here. I still have way more plugs that come in VST2 only instead of VST3. It would be great if Sonar could be everything to everyone, but you have to remember that a lot of decisions were made with the surveys. Most people could care less about VST3 that I know in real life, and they never visit forums. 

I just browse some forums on internet about VST3 and truth is that VST3 is nothing special and there is no function cannot be achieved in version 2. Like I said before, it becomes important when Universal audio implements it :)

are you listening to yourselves arguing against progress?..

 
I see this thread as going in two directions...    Some seem to believe VST3 is simply unecessary and does not matter at all.  But there also those that seem to believe SONAR cannot be considered (or used as) a professional DAW without it.   I really don't see either one being entirely accurate and perhaps more about "emotion" than fact.   
 
Given what I saw on the webinar yesterday, I'm betting that X2 will do very well even without VST3.   I'm also betting that at some point CW will indeed have to implement VST3... because it will eventually become "the norm", just like VST itself did some years ago.
 

Resonant Order


Steinberg developed the VST3 and VST2 SDKs, and after several versions of both Cubase and Nuendo have been released, they still can't get the two formats to play nice with each other, especially when it comes to presets. Steinberg also didn't play nice with everyone when VST3 was released, and this was after they helped shoot down a plug format that would have been open sourced and universal that was developed back when Ron Kuper was still here. I still have way more plugs that come in VST2 only instead of VST3. It would be great if Sonar could be everything to everyone, but you have to remember that a lot of decisions were made with the surveys. Most people could care less about VST3 that I know in real life, and they never visit forums. 

Steinberg has developed ALL the Vst Standards....they developed VST....(VIRTUAL STUDIO TECHNOLOGY) which
EVERY PC based DAW (except NO TOOLS) supports...

They were one of the VERY FIRST SEQUENCERS produced for the PC...

Any PC based software is going to have issues....
Any MAC based software is going to have issues....

They are written by HUMANS...who have ISSUES!!!

Nothing is perfect.....but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have it or use it...
If that were the case.....we'd have NOTHING AT ALL!!!

DO THE BEST YOU CAN WITH IT!!
Cheers!