John

guitardood

John


Its not a bug its how X1/X2 work. To input numbers with the keyboard use the numpad.

It is a bug.  If it were designed it would behave the same no matter what plug.  But the behavior changes depending on which plugin you are working with.


If it is, as you say, "how it works", then it is rather an unfortunate design flaw that should be revisited in Cake's bake shop. (flaw in the DAW? Sounds like a song)

What if my computer does not have a numeric pad?  How then would I enter numbers?


How about when you have to enter multiple keystrokes to get into keypad mode such as on a laptop?   Am I supposed to constantly function in-and-out of keypad mode?  Talk about a drag on creativity.

If anything, the screen-set hotkeys should have been relegated to the numeric pad or F-Keys (with alt-shift-or-ctrl) and leave the standard keyboard numeric keys alone.   Just my opinion, but if this is the design direction it is no wonder why so many die-hard Sonar fans such as myself are feeling quite disenchanted with our old-friend as of late.


What if Cakewalk decided that the left mouse button should act as the right and vice-versa?  Or how about left-button =scroll-wheel-down, right button=scroll-wheel-up and the scroll-wheel-up=left-click and scroll-wheel-down=right-click?


Would you be just as content with the pat response of: "That's how it works!"?  I am not.


Best,

I not sure I understand. The number keys are for screen sets only and shouldn't change with a VST or not. If in fact this is happening it could be due to an errant VST. 

The whole point in UI design is, for lack of a better term, consistency.  Whenever a field has focus, the standard keys should behave as standard keys unless otherwise remapped by that particular UI component.  The current crap-shoot type behavior is 180 degrees opposite of what one would call consistent.  Further, the whole reason keyboards have F-keys and alt, shift & ctrl modifiers is to allow for alternate functions to standard keys not standard functions for alternately refunctioned keys.  IMHO, the errant VST is the one that allows the host control of some keys and not of others, but it seems more likely (and this is just a guess) that the bit-bridged plugins behave as expected and you can input numeric data, but the 64-bit VST have this problem where you cannot input numeric data even though you have a field that is sitting there highlighted and begging me to input numbers to my heart's content.


Also, no offense, you did not respond to the case of not having a numeric keypad.

Best,

John
One thing is I'm not going to engage in a debate on the merits of screen sets and how to access them. It is how it works. If you want it to work differently submit a feature request.   

Then in all honesty and all due respect, you could have read my post, quietly said f-him to yourself and moved along but instead decided to be a smart aleck and post with your holier-than-thou attitude that it is not a bug when in fact it is a bug.  Try double-clicking on a track name and enter "Track 1",  what do you know....it works!  No VST there, and there goes your argument, which you started btw, that the numeric keys are only for screen-sets.  Different behavior than what is expected or in simpler terms: BUG!  (or undocumented feature if you're the coder who created that spaghetti).


You claim you do not want to enter a debate only after you have been called on your ridiculous "it's how it works" answer.

And still, no answer as to what someone without a keypad is supposed to do.

Clearly, thou doth protest too much.  Trust that I like Sonar too or I wouldn't be wasting my time here.

Best,

Chuck,

"Totaly agree.  i have beat the living day lights out of x2 and im very productive with it."

This interests me, do you still have X1 installed or did you do a complete wipe and fresh install of X2? Our install of X2 and then "a"  has made our normally rock solid X1d Expanded build very unstable and now crashes occasionally where as before, we had worked for literally months on X1d without interuption 




Danny,

"I can't afford to be down for an hour let alone a few hours or even a day."


I really hear you on this one. It almost seems as if Cakewalk is so used to a certain type of user base that they almost forget there are users out there that use this software 6 days a week as a full time job and down time is simply not an option. 


I fully realize that all DAW's have their quirks and believe me when I say, most other forums are not nearly as helpful for the most part as Cake's ( I dread having to deal with Avid for anything ) but at the end of the day, function is everything...the tools make it easier, more enjoyable, or they impede the process.


X1 has been our default DAW because its such a joy to come to work everyday, power up with clients sitting in the same room and think about nothing but creativity. Now, X2a has really thrown a wrench into that formula and we are lost in the "tech" zone more often than not now. I really like the idea of X2 and all the new features but stability continues to be the most important part of the job. I just dont have time to be a beta tester anymore. 

There is a typo in my last post the word program should read problem in the first paragraph. What that means is it may be a focus problem that that you are having. 

jsg


1.  Loss of color options.
 
2.   In staff view, the right-click process menu now requires SHIFT and right-click, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of right-click mouse functionality.
 
3.  When setting up screensets involving multiple staves, the staves are remembered (as they are supposed to be) but the staff view's track pane does not remember the instrument list when switching back and forth between screensets.
 
4.  When setting up screensets, the tempo view and controllers view have a similar issue, the tempo view's tempo list pane is not remembered when switching screensets and the configuration of the controllers/piano view window is not remembered either. 
 
I can do all of the above in Sonar 7, except that Sonar 7 also does not remember the controller view configuration.  Will  Cakewalk ever fix this?  Maybe, maybe not.
 
The inability of the staff editor to properly display dotted and tied triplets and 64th notes will most likely never be fixed.  But these new bugs in X2 make it such that there is no logic or reason in calling a downgrade (for this particular composer) an upgrade...
 
JG
www.jerrygerber.com

I agree there are things in X2 that has made my life harder and I have complained...I get what they are doing but there a few things were simplifying things have made Sonar worse....   (And these aren't bugs...just choices that I don't like IMHO)

I tend to agree with Chuck here. But like him, I don't use staff view but I'm hoping for a nice upgrade for the people who do. 

I use X2 like a tapedeck and mixing console on steroids. I use midi for drums and keys, but the heart of my music is recorded in realtime. X2 is one of the best if not the best for what I do...

I opened up 8.5 last week to work through an older project. Made some changes to an audio track and clicked bounce to track. I had forgotten how long this used to take to render in the pre-X series. Painful...  There is no going back for me.

FWIW - I'm on the color band wagon with the OP.

Featherlight


Chuck,

"Totaly agree.  i have beat the living day lights out of x2 and im very productive with it."

This interests me, do you still have X1 installed or did you do a complete wipe and fresh install of X2? Our install of X2 and then "a"  has made our normally rock solid X1d Expanded build very unstable and now crashes occasionally where as before, we had worked for literally months on X1d without interuption 




I still have x1 d expanded version installed,havent used it much though,been mostly on x2 all the time. 
your question,i think your post was very reasonable and you have some real concerns,and more importantly,you worded them very well.you didnt sound like you were complaining one bit,you have real concerns.
and quite frankly,i dont blame you.seems like you really enjoy sonar but x2 isnt so stable there.
sorry to hear that.
 
i get so caught up in the why do some people have such good luck with x2 and other are having issues.
what kind of stability issues are you having?
i tell you honestly speaking only for myself here.any stability problems i have ever had have been traced back to vst plug ins. and in my case 64 bit ones(a couple 32) but a few plugs ive had just dont play nice in sonar.it could be bit bridge,i dont know.
 
the other stability issue i believe is this "the soundcard"
ive been very lucky to have bought two really good ones,a focusrite saffire 6 usb and a cakewalk V-studio.
 
remember that next time your having stability issues,just check what vst plug in you inserted before that issues and do a test.run the same project a little further with a different plug.
 
i wish you the best of luck and hope things turn around for you with x2.

It's been a long time since I posted, primarily because of how CW/SONAR has evolved since the early days. What started out as a more traditional midi composer's tool, which is what I and apparently the OP want,  has evolved into a very effective audio production tool, which is the more lucrative market.  This is why the traditional composer's tool set -- staff view, and somewhat less so the PRV -- has languished for several versions.

Take a look at the "Features" panel on the X2 product description page on the CW website: Perform, Record, Edit, Mix, Master, Deliver. Nothing about composing in the traditional sense.

As far as the OP's 4 points:
1 and 2 are design choices.
3 and 4 are better described as bugs in my opinion, but which I suspect are self-inflicted wounds relating to object architecture issues in the software and which persist.

billp
CW/SONAR ... started out as a more traditional midi composer's tool, which is what I and apparently the OP want, has evolved into a very effective audio production tool, which is the more lucrative market. This is why the traditional composer's tool set -- staff view, and somewhat less so the PRV -- has languished for several versions.

Take a look at the "Features" panel on the X2 product description page on the CW website: Perform, Record, Edit, Mix, Master, Deliver. Nothing about composing in the traditional sense.

1 and 2 are design choices.

That's a pretty valid crit imo.  Do you have any idea if the other major DAW like Protools, Steinberg, FL Studio, or Ableton have kept their trad composers any happier than Cakewalk?  I actually see that CW at least tried to make a serious upgrade to scoring with the X series, quite flawed though it may be!  I don't write much serious stuff but I find that CW combined with Finale is pretty adequate.

 
 
 
 
 

jsg


1.  Loss of color options.
 
2.   In staff view, the right-click process menu now requires SHIFT and right-click, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of right-click mouse functionality.
 
3.  When setting up screensets involving multiple staves, the staves are remembered (as they are supposed to be) but the staff view's track pane does not remember the instrument list when switching back and forth between screensets.
 
4.  When setting up screensets, the tempo view and controllers view have a similar issue, the tempo view's tempo list pane is not remembered when switching screensets and the configuration of the controllers/piano view window is not remembered either. 
 
I can do all of the above in Sonar 7, except that Sonar 7 also does not remember the controller view configuration.  Will  Cakewalk ever fix this?  Maybe, maybe not.
 
The inability of the staff editor to properly display dotted and tied triplets and 64th notes will most likely never be fixed.  But these new bugs in X2 make it such that there is no logic or reason in calling a downgrade (for this particular composer) an upgrade...
 
JG
www.jerrygerber.com

You post the same stupid thread every 2 weeks.
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2769295
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2753187
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2749676
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2746474&mpage=3#2749666
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2714639&mpage=6#2717146
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2630340&mpage=10#2644067