@Bob Bone
I'm with you there about Mr Bruford.  I can see why the Step Sequencer is the perfect tool for programing his "beats".
 
I just admire you for the music you produce.
 
I also compose in odd time signitures, although I am trying to give it up.
 
Old habits die hard..

@jb101 - thank you very much.  They did the hard part and wrote those kinds of tunes - I just have to learn them.

If ever you need any keyboard tracks, or someone to give you feedback on projects, please shoot me a PM and I would cheerfully do my best to help you.  I appreciate folks who like odd meters - along with great love for standard meters as well.

I would be intrigued by the potential for some interesting musical concept convergence. :)

I mean that - shoot me a note if you ever have any interest in my doing something to help you in that vein of music.

Bob Bone

When I take a 40 measure basic MIDI beat, and convert to Step Sequencer, it winds up being 8 measures long. Is that what it is supposed to do? Is Step Sequencer the "best" tool for working out a drum part?

 
Here's the deal with the step sequencer I don't get either:
 
It has a maximum of 64 bars per instantiate, and also defaults to 16 bars.
Sonar allows to convert a track to Step Sequencer. Process which is  Convert Midi Clip(s)To Step Sequencer
What it does is; it truncates a conversion to the setting of the Step Sequencer to the default of 16 bars. Everything else in the track just "disappears"
Also, when in track view: There is the option to show Step Sequencer. There it only shows the first 64 bars.

sharke


I started out using the step sequencer for drums, but now I prefer the PRV. There's really nothing you can do with the SS that you can't do with the PRV, and the PRV is way more versatile. I quickly grew tired with the limitations of the SS, for instance the number of steps you need to work with in order to use triplets and other rhythms that aren't straight 8ths or 16ths, is such that the whole pattern doesn't fit on the screen...and you can't zoom out to make it fit like you can with the PRV. 

I would strongly advise watching chuckebaby's video tutorial on programming drums with the PRV, although I can't seem to find the link (anyone?)

thanks for the props Sharke  :)
 
Drum editing in the PRV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruAnAPR6-hQ
 
Using a drum machine to trigger session drummer 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjZS61Wg-XY
 
Basic Midi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k83UVo1OiKA
 
these 3 video's cover almost everything from set up to editing in the PRV and creating drum patterns.

robert_e_bone



Here is a youtube link for the all-midi cover of Fainting in Coils.  

What VSTi (s) are you using for the bass?

@simpleman

Yeah - I do not mess with that end of things, so I do not know what all of any issues there may be, sorry.  I create drum clips in much smaller chunks - mostly no more than 32 measures, and usually more like 8 measures or less.  

But I do not believe I have ever tried to go back and edit any converted track, where it seems this truncation can occur.  I HAVE gone back in to edit such a converted track, on the occasion where I learned about having to avoid using drum maps when using Step Sequencer.  The solution to get me back to where I could edit was to select all of those drum clips on that track and I believe 'bounce' to a midi track, which severed the association with Step Sequencer, creating one giant midi clip with all of the events.

When I went back in to edit that track, I went to Event List and adjusted individual events that way, rather than trying to open it in Step Sequencer.

Good luck with it all - and again please feel free to shoot me a PM with a contact number, in case you want to have me try to help you over the phone to work through any of what I had tried to explain in my earlier posts.  I have done this with several other folks over the last few months, including someone from Europe, someone from Hawaii, and one from Japan, so I do not mind communicating in that fashion at all - if that helps you in any way.

Bob Bone

robert_e_bone

jb101


@robert_e_bone -

Since you are  someone who sequences Bruford's drum parts, I was interested to read your advice on writing drum parts..

If that was the short version, having "dropped" the original version, then I can see why you are well suited to laying down his beats.

More power to your elbow, Sir. 

Since you appear to have awareness of Mr Bruford, I thought I would share something with you.  I am in the processof working up an all midi version of Bill Bruford's 'Fainting in Coils', from the 70's release 'One of a Kind'.


Here is a youtube link for the all-midi cover of Fainting in Coils.  I have a gigantic bunch of work to go - monumental in fact - but I have a bunch of the bass and drums tracked, and it will give you an idea of how the whole thing is coming together - and ALL of this was done with the step secuencer.  For the flute interlude part of the song, I had to work out the fade-ins, by working backwards from the known ending point of the different parts.


The link is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRDPKQYiL0Y

I hope to finish this one in a month or 2.

Bob Bone

what a great piece bob very progressive and what an awesome mix as well.
I really like the way tempo slows down @ 2:57
there is a very long drum ending on this though, is that on purpose?

Glyn Barnes

robert_e_bone



Here is a youtube link for the all-midi cover of Fainting in Coils.  

What VSTi (s) are you using for the bass?

Hi - I used Kontakt 5 for several of the instruments, Rhodes, Piano, Organ, and Bass.  The bass that I loaded was the Classic Bass sound under Band, from the factory instruments.  I really like that preset.  It is fairly well balanced and sits well underneath, with still enough presence to come through without being muddy or too harsh.


Bob Bone

This has been an interesting thread which will merit rereading.

Combining what Bristol_Jonesey and robert_e_bone have said (both of whom have my deepest respect)
it looks like drum maps are good if you use the PRV but not good if you use the sequencer.

Bob, could you say a bit more about what problems they cause with the sequencer?
Isn't the role of the map just to convert midi notes to instrument names, and remap them ?

Another step sequencer tip, an obvious one but one that didn't occur to me for a very long time: use the load/save pattern feature to save time on new projects. 

Start with the default layout, delete instruments you probably won't use (e.g. I rarely use toms in my click tracks), add in the ones you probably will use (e.g. ride cymbal), and rename the rows to "KICK", "SNARE", etc. Then click on the load/save button and save the setup as something like "BASIC.ssp".

You can take this one step further by incorporating it into your standard project template. Then, when you start a new project, the step sequencer will come up with proper instrument names and only the ones you're likely to use.