Lynn




Some have suggested that X1 is "dumbed down", but I disagree.  It has been slowed down, IMO.  I consider a slower work flow to be a loss of function, as do others.  As you pointed out, X1 hasn't lost functionality, it just takes longer to function.  When CW went from Pro Audio 9 to Sonar 1, it was advertised as a major change, so users were expecting things to be different.  Actually, most of the same workflow wasn't all that different, and one could still intuitively work with the new Sonar without consulting the manual or help menu.  Just a few minutes ago, I had to consult the help menu, yet again, to find that the track manager, which used to be accessed by hitting the letter M, but now has changed to the letter H.  It is a multitude of small changes like this that we're talking about.  Again, please give us your thoughts after using X1 for 3 or 4 weeks, which, by then, I may have learned the new key bindings and X1 will behave like a Maserati again.

This is a fair way to put it but that was not what I was objecting to. I also think given time the work flow will speed up for most users.  I think others will be slowed down because their use of Sonar was unique for the way it used to be. I don't see how that can be helped.  I do think it can be mitigated by reinstalling some GUI features from the old Sonar.

mrfitz


The way I see this thread is John (who does NOT own X1) telling people who DO own X1 that the problems or issues that they are encountering with the redesigned interface are either A) all in their head, or B) features that they just don't understand.

whoa

Have you even read this thread? I don't see how you can come to that conclusion.

John - Billy makes a good point.  I assume you will be taking the plunge and upgrading some time in the future, and it will be interesting to hear your comments after you sit in the cockpit .  Have you made up your mind when (or if) you will upgrade?

John

Lynn




Some have suggested that X1 is "dumbed down", but I disagree.  It has been slowed down, IMO.  I consider a slower work flow to be a loss of function, as do others.  As you pointed out, X1 hasn't lost functionality, it just takes longer to function.  When CW went from Pro Audio 9 to Sonar 1, it was advertised as a major change, so users were expecting things to be different.  Actually, most of the same workflow wasn't all that different, and one could still intuitively work with the new Sonar without consulting the manual or help menu.  Just a few minutes ago, I had to consult the help menu, yet again, to find that the track manager, which used to be accessed by hitting the letter M, but now has changed to the letter H.  It is a multitude of small changes like this that we're talking about.  Again, please give us your thoughts after using X1 for 3 or 4 weeks, which, by then, I may have learned the new key bindings and X1 will behave like a Maserati again.

This is a fair way to put it but that was not what I was objecting to. I also think given time the work flow will speed up for most users.  I think others will be slowed down because their use of Sonar was unique for the way it used to be. I don't see how that can be helped.  I do think it can be mitigated by reinstalling some GUI features from the old Sonar.

I agree with you on this.  My workflow is already getting faster as I get to know the new commands.  Yet, it still takes an extra click or two to do what previously took only one click to do.  That is being balanced by the fact that other commands have been streamlined.  I applaud one major turnaround in X1 - it crashes less often, which is a major improvement for me.  So, I and many others here are not trying to dissuade people from upgrading to X1.  We're merely suggesting ways that X1 can be improved.  Workflow enhancements have always been touted as a major feature in every Sonar upgrade, and that's why this version caught so many people off guard.  Changing the name from Sonar to X1 should have been a clue.
You're right about releasing this version without the manual, that was an oversight.  Nevertheless, the search function in Adobe doesn't always give the results you're looking for.  Especially if you use a different nomenclature than CW.  I suspect you'll find this to be true when you start working with X1.
The best,
Lynn

Why I am so far the only one that is asking those that say this to prove it?

Where are the forum members that want CW to succeed here? Do people really think that misinforming and constant finding fault is helpful to our cause? Our cause being a healthy company and one that will listen to us. If all we do is rant at or about CW they will either turn us off or stop listening to us.

This forum is a marketing tool. If it becomes nothing more that a bashing of CW then I don't see much future in it. 

 
John - I am working my way through X1a. I can honestly say that I like it  - a lot. I think it performs better than 8.5.3 on my rig. (I am sure some will feel that I am obviously not using it in their own uber super-enlightened way and will line up to burn my face off in a retaliatory response). I am not ready to completely move away from 8.5.3 but I like where X1 is headed and will eventually, without question. People are (maybe rightfully) p.o'd at having to learn a new way of working in their DAW of choice, although for those who are most resistant, waiting for the demo might have been a better option than the one they took.
I think there have been quite a few voices of reason on both sides of the debate - Billy (BA_Midi), Scott Lee, Randy Bowser, Mod Bod - come to mind, all of whom have been honest advocates for improvement without any of the vitriol and rhetoric.
From my point of view as an X1 user, Mr. Anderton's review was right on the money. Mr. Anderton is open about his business relationships, and his credentials are well known. I like the fact that he is a long time loyal user of SONAR. I also understand why he chooses not to post on the Cakewalk forums much - what a frickin' circus.
I have no interest in joining the ruckus as I think my time is better spent learning the software and its features. I don't think Cake needs me to defend them - just offering my voice into the pool as one of those who actually likes X1.
 

John - Billy makes a good point. I assume you will be taking the plunge and upgrading some time in the future, and it will be interesting to hear your comments after you sit in the cockpit . Have you made up your mind when (or if) you will upgrade?

Good question.  Would a resounding yes be appropriate? Because I intend to upgrade as soon as possible.

Brando

Why I am so far the only one that is asking those that say this to prove it?

Where are the forum members that want CW to succeed here? Do people really think that misinforming and constant finding fault is helpful to our cause? Our cause being a healthy company and one that will listen to us. If all we do is rant at or about CW they will either turn us off or stop listening to us.

This forum is a marketing tool. If it becomes nothing more that a bashing of CW then I don't see much future in it. 

 
John - I am working my way through X1a. I can honestly say that I like it  - a lot. I think it performs better than 8.5.3 on my rig. (I am sure some will feel that I am obviously not using it in their own uber super-enlightened way and will line up to burn my face off in a retaliatory response). I am not ready to completely move away from 8.5.3 but I like where X1 is headed and will eventually, without question. People are (maybe rightfully) p.o'd at having to learn a new way of working in their DAW of choice, although for those who are most resistant, waiting for the demo might have been a better option than the one they took.
I think there have been quite a few voices of reason on both sides of the debate - Billy (BA_Midi), Chris Lee, Randy Bowser, Mod Bod - come to mind, all of whom have been honest advocates for improvement without any of the vitriol and rhetoric.
From my point of view as an X1 user, Mr. Anderton's review was right on the money. Mr. Anderton is open about his business relationships, and his credentials are well known. I like the fact that he is a long time loyal user of SONAR. I also understand why he chooses not to post on the Cakewalk forums much - what a frickin' circus.
I have no interest in joining the ruckus as I think my time is better spent learning the software and its features. I don't think Cake needs me to defend them - just offering my voice into the pool as one of those who actually likes X1.
 

Brando,  I wanted to add a comment about Craig Anderton.    Normally I'm a major skeptic when someone has something to gain (ie a profit or business motive) in support of something.
 
But, without knowing Craig personally, I must admit I was quite impressed with his comments about X1.  They mirrored some of my own and others and seemed quite balanced.  Kudos to him for that.
 
Magazines, in general, are basically whores.  They walk on eggs if they have a criticism.  So I never put much trust in their reviews.  Details are important (ie., how a certain function works, for example).  But generalities abound in magazines.
 
And, to me the best reviewers are the ones *actually using the program and most of its features* ;)
 
 

John - I am working my way through X1a. I can honestly say that I like it - a lot. I think it performs better than 8.5.3 on my rig. (I am sure some will feel that I am obviously not using it in their own uber super-enlightened way and will line up to burn my face off in a retaliatory response). I am not ready to completely move away from 8.5.3 but I like where X1 is headed and will eventually, without question. People are (maybe rightfully) p.o'd at having to learn a new way of working in their DAW of choice, although for those who are most resistant, waiting for the demo might have been a better option than the one they took. I think there have been quite a few voices of reason on both sides of the debate - Billy (BA_Midi), Chris Lee, Randy Bowser, Mod Bod - come to mind, all of whom have been honest advocates for improvement without any of the vitriol and rhetoric. From my point of view as an X1 user, Mr. Anderton's review was right on the money. Mr. Anderton is open about his business relationships, and his credentials are well known. I like the fact that he is a long time loyal user of SONAR. I also understand why he chooses not to post on the Cakewalk forums much - what a frickin' circus. I have no interest in joining the ruckus as I think my time is better spent learning the software and its features. I don't think Cake needs me to defend them - just offering my voice into the pool as one of those who actually likes X1.

Great post! Also thanks.

No one can imagine the total distaste I had after logging on for the first time in over a month. No notice no forewarning no nothing. My first reaction was CW had not done an upgrade of Sonar at all but had redone its entry level products only. Then I started to do research to bring my backward self up to date. It took a lot of work but gradually I began to see what CW was doing. Again knowing what CW was up to didn't mean I was going to like it. More research  more reading more watching  and as I did I began to notice that it wasn't as bad as I at first thought. Then I began to see a trend that was very much like my own on this forum without the coming to understand X1.  Reaction only. No questions to speak of just an inordinate amount of criticism.

Some of the criticism was very justified but much was due entirely to ignorance. I thought someone should post a thread that challenged the apparent wisdom here. No one did, so I did. I knew I was putting myself out on a limb. I knew I would get negative responses. But I have had that many times before.

But it is all worth it when people have an opertunity to sit back and reassess the X1 situation due to a tread of this sort. Take a breath and without emotion look at it for what it offers then decide if it will work for you or not.  We need the good reported along with the bad if we are going to make a rational decision.     

brundlefly

Minor things missing or just don't feel right -

(1)  F5.  I posted this elsewhere, but one missing feature is the ability to press F5 to choose a marker as a start time in clip properties, that's how I usually line things up where I want them. 

(2)  F8.  Another thing that is missing is the old F8 - a quick go-to end of selection.   ....

I didn't see this answered, so...
 
G is now Go > Time, which is what F5 used to do by default, but it sounds like maybe you had it custom bound to open the Markers View...? 8.5 also had a function that allowed you to enter a time in any time field by hitting F5 and choosing a Marker, which still works. It was probably an oversight that F5 was remapped to select the Smart Tool, but still has this Markers-related function when the focus is in a time field.
 
Ctrl-G is mistakenly bound to Search Next. This is a bug that will probably get fixed in the next release. But I went ahead and re-bound F7, F8, F9, F10 and Ctrl-F9/F10 to work as they have for the last 20 years, because they were too ingrained for me to re-learn on top of all the other changes. you could do this, or just bind Ctrl-G to Now=Thru so it works as intended. 

Thanks for the response, brundlefly.   F5 still works in most places, but not in the clip-start attribute of clip properties.  (The main place I used it...)  I hope that gets fixed soon.   I'll bind F8 like you said, that will help a lot.   I assumed the function was a problem, not the bind.   Sounds like an easy fix 'till the next patch.  
 
Shawn

I also think given time the work flow will speed up for most users.  I think others will be slowed down because their use of Sonar was unique for the way it used to be. I don't see how that can be helped.  I do think it can be mitigated by reinstalling some GUI features from the old Sonar.

I think this sums up my situation.  Given some time, I'll adapt.  I've already learned new ways to do almost everything I needed to do.   Like the 'missing' F5 in clip properties I mention above.   Snap to markers works just fine.   It just points me to use the graphical interface more.  
 
I'm one of those who did almost entirely free-recording work, using SONAR like a tape deck & for post-processing, not a creation machine tied to tempos, beats measures, etc.   I spent most of my time with SNAP set to OFF, since the measure:beat was completely inapplicable.   I'm learning ways around that now. 
 
I can see why a lot of folks are upset, it's easy to get pissed off when so much that was familiar got pulled out from underneath us.  I've seen it many times before... 
 
I've worked in IT for the last 30 years.   The surest way to get someone to love a system they hate is to take it away from them.