BobF

Moshkito
Hi,
 
I always thought that the "solo" stuff in the middle of "Echoes" was a lot more valuable and interesting than any of the stuff he did after. It was about how to blend what would be considered "noise" into the music, and make it work. 
 
While I enjoy solo's, in general, in rock music, solo's are NEVER what I want to hear, because it's like saying that Hamlet is not a part of the story, because he is on a solo trip and there is no story. I still think that rock music, has really separated the "solo" parts from the very piece it is so hard trying to tell you something ... Gilmour's "solo's", lost their way, after WYWH and Animals, when the original songs, were twisted into nothing from the very with it and meaningful originals, to over hyped final versions on the album. Syd Barrett's picking and and touching of his guitar, was not about a "solo", it was about the "feel" of the thing and how it fit into the music, and the same with the early Hendrix. The minute you take it away from it's context, it's meaningless. And that is what turns me off about "rock'n'roll" ... when does the music start? After the ego? I'm gone. Thanks!
 
I don't care for solo's. It's either the whole thing, or tell the guitar to sit down and shut up!

Hi,
 
I certainly don't just listen to solos.  In fact, a solo is nothing more than a wank-off without the context of the song.  However, as a guitar player like many others, I do like to analyze solos for their techniques, note choice, rhythmic values, embellishments, etc. as case studies.
 
So when I mention my favorite solos, they aren't my favorites because I've pulled them out of the context of the song they are played in.  The context is everything.  As such, they are among my favorites because of how they add to the whole.
 
I do appreciate you attempting to talk down to us unwashed once again though.  It's so refreshing.
 
 

Well said Bob.

Oh I feel so dirty now for liking solo's..........I think I need a bath.

craigb
I've always thought that Neal Schon's solos with Journey always fit the songs perfectly and I certainly wouldn't want to listen to Pink Floyd without the solos.  That said, there sure are a lot of songs out there where an unrelated wankfest was added to keep the guitarist happy I guess.  As a guitarist, I don't want to hear a solo that reminds me of a practice exercise at 220bpm.  I want something that adds to the song it resides in.

Absolutely.
 
Masters of this;
 
Steve Rothery (Marillion)
Mark Knopfler
Steve Hackett
Bill Nelson
Dave Gregory*
Glen Tilbrook
 
* Perfect example at 3:18 here;
 

I sure wish I was sophisticated enough musically to understand what you're talking about.

BobF
I sure wish I was sophisticated enough musically to understand what you're talking about.

Who, me? I'm about as musically sophistimacated as Paper Lace, Bob. I do like a nice melodic guitar solo though.

Kamikaze

Serious_Noize!
 
Love this tune!!!!!
 

 
Me too WHEN I was Six Years OLD.

We are building a "Pink Floyd WALL!" it's "Let's make America 8 again, not 6" LOL, thanks, glad to hear you had a happy childhood my friend. 

BobF
...
I do appreciate you attempting to talk down to us unwashed once again though.  It's so refreshing.
... 

 
That is so unfair and ethnocentric, it isn't funny! 
 
All I was saying is that I wanted a much more "integrated" piece added to the song, rather than the usual ... STOP THE PRESS ... here is the GUEETAR PLAYER ... thing, that became so common and famous after the late 1960's. And it got louder. "Layla" would not be half as good, if it was just a solo, and not a "conversation", so to speak, and this is what I am talking about, not your ability to discern what it is that a guitar player is doing so you can learn from it.
 
Also, for your knowledge, my musical tastes, are a bit more "classical" oriented, instead of the typical separation that is found in too much rock music, and the best material in my book, is the one that adds the electric guitar to the work, and it makes it ... fly. 
 
It's weird hearing someone say what you did, when some guitarist I love to listen to, are the weirdest, strangest and most unusual of musicians, and yet ... you might not be used to listen to them, and find what they are doing ... to you it's just a solo, and since they are involved in a piece of music, that means you can not listen to what the guitar player is doing, and how he is a part of the thing. This is one of the lessons that Robert Fripp likes to talk about now and then ... where's the music, to help the instrument carry its ability and knowledge? Or, he can immediately joke, like he did to Dave Cousins (Strawbs) that ... "You're self sufficient, you don't need lessons!" ... meaning you're not going to listen, and you will do your own thing anyway.
 
Try sitting through the long cut "Yeti" by Amon Duul 2 ... and that is a very long "solo", and yet, it is not apart from the totality of the piece. Or listen to how Daevid Allen or Steve Hillage, used their ability to ENHANCE the music, not to just solo, and ignore anyone else. Or how Djam Karet used the guitar in the first 5 albums as a "sound effect on a film", that is glorious, and could even be thought of as a solo, but isn't. Gayle Ebbett liked to say it best when he described it as just playing from A to Z, and listening to what is around you. He doesn't like using the word "solo".
 
Your ability is not in question, and never was! Your attitude to my comments were, because you were not willing, or able to ask ... where did that idea come from. I did not say that you did not know music. You might not have heard things that are so different, done with an electric guitar (heck, I am not sure that you can last 5 minutes with Richard Pinhas), or accepted an invitation to stop by and play anything you have never heard from my collection of 2500 CD's and 1200 LP's. 
 
It's the greatest collection of variables you could ever find in one spot.
 
I appreciate your ability to play, and do so well, and like everyone here, I'm not wanting to be putting anyone down, since everyone is good in their own way ... but there IS A LOT OF DIFFERENT STUFF OUT THERE ... that shows music in a different light, and you have to TUNE your ear to it, just like you do with any solo you want to learn.
 
Heck, I should lock you up with Guru Guru's first 4 albums and Ax Genrich's couple of solo albums. He does what Jimi probably would have done completely stoned and out of his mind, and it is live and not Memorex. The question is, can you get past the personally defensive mode, and hear something else?
 

craigb
...
As a guitarist, I don't want to hear a solo that reminds me of a practice exercise at 220bpm.  I want something that adds to the song it resides in.
...

Thank you! I am just saddened that someone simply thought I was putting them down, when they know how much different music, some of us here listen to, as do you and many others in this Forum. 
 
I just prefer to mention the things no one knows ... why would you want to keep listening to the same thing, unless you were already mind warped into mindless repetition of the likes of a Top 40?

Moshkito

BobF
...
I do appreciate you attempting to talk down to us unwashed once again though.  It's so refreshing.
... 

 
That is so unfair and ethnocentric, it isn't funny! 
 
All I was saying is that I wanted a much more "integrated" piece added to the song, rather than the usual ... STOP THE PRESS ... here is the GUEETAR PLAYER ... thing, that became so common and famous after the late 1960's. And it got louder. "Layla" would not be half as good, if it was just a solo, and not a "conversation", so to speak, and this is what I am talking about, not your ability to discern what it is that a guitar player is doing so you can learn from it.
 
Also, for your knowledge, my musical tastes, are a bit more "classical" oriented, instead of the typical separation that is found in too much rock music, and the best material in my book, is the one that adds the electric guitar to the work, and it makes it ... fly. 
 
It's weird hearing someone say what you did, when some guitarist I love to listen to, are the weirdest, strangest and most unusual of musicians, and yet ... you might not be used to listen to them, and find what they are doing ... to you it's just a solo, and since they are involved in a piece of music, that means you can not listen to what the guitar player is doing, and how he is a part of the thing. This is one of the lessons that Robert Fripp likes to talk about now and then ... where's the music, to help the instrument carry its ability and knowledge? Or, he can immediately joke, like he did to Dave Cousins (Strawbs) that ... "You're self sufficient, you don't need lessons!" ... meaning you're not going to listen, and you will do your own thing anyway.
 
Try sitting through the long cut "Yeti" by Amon Duul 2 ... and that is a very long "solo", and yet, it is not apart from the totality of the piece. Or listen to how Daevid Allen or Steve Hillage, used their ability to ENHANCE the music, not to just solo, and ignore anyone else. Or how Djam Karet used the guitar in the first 5 albums as a "sound effect on a film", that is glorious, and could even be thought of as a solo, but isn't. Gayle Ebbett liked to say it best when he described it as just playing from A to Z, and listening to what is around you. He doesn't like using the word "solo".
 
Your ability is not in question, and never was! Your attitude to my comments were, because you were not willing, or able to ask ... where did that idea come from. I did not say that you did not know music. You might not have heard things that are so different, done with an electric guitar (heck, I am not sure that you can last 5 minutes with Richard Pinhas), or accepted an invitation to stop by and play anything you have never heard from my collection of 2500 CD's and 1200 LP's. 
 
It's the greatest collection of variables you could ever find in one spot.
 
I appreciate your ability to play, and do so well, and like everyone here, I'm not wanting to be putting anyone down, since everyone is good in their own way ... but there IS A LOT OF DIFFERENT STUFF OUT THERE ... that shows music in a different light, and you have to TUNE your ear to it, just like you do with any solo you want to learn.
 
Heck, I should lock you up with Guru Guru's first 4 albums and Ax Genrich's couple of solo albums. He does what Jimi probably would have done completely stoned and out of his mind, and it is live and not Memorex. The question is, can you get past the personally defensive mode, and hear something else?
 

You forgot to start that with, "Hi,"
 
Sometimes it's best to just go with the topic at hand.  It really isn't necessary for you to enlighten the rest of us or stretch our appreciation of music EVERY ****ING TOPIC.
 
That's all.  Pretty simple really. 

BobF
 
Sometimes it's best to just go with the topic at hand.  It really isn't necessary for you to enlighten the rest of us or stretch our appreciation of music EVERY ****ING TOPIC.
 
That's all.  Pretty simple really. 

No Hi this time!
 
(Where's Cheech when you need him?)
 
You can bring a horse to water, but not make him drink.
 
Same with some guitarists!
 
Sad. I get the feeling you weren't even patient enough to read the whole thing!
 
Ohhhh, I forget ... the rule at the Coffee Hose is to only write 3 lines and a period!