• SONAR
  • mix method advice needed
2013/03/06 12:06:43
TraceyStudios
I have read articles, browsed thru a few biiks, watched several videos and am applying a few techniques. Was wondering if I am on the right track. My terms may not be correct, hopefully you can follow along.
 
once I have finished tracking, i am using s spectrum analyzer on each channel and shelfing out the unused/unneeded freqs, both hi and lo
 
on the bass guitar, I am notching  -3db down for the kick drum low end, also notching out -12 db around 200 hz so the guitars blend better, adding a little bit to 1khz just to make the bass a bit more defined. I am making sure the bass is not "boomy"
 
 
drums, not really doing much on the drums other than some panning,compressing, gating and shelving out the unused freqs
 
guitars - I get a bit confused about this cuz I use amps sims and there is an eq on the amp sim (low, mid & high). I sometimes get into this "back and forth". I set up the guitar sims usually about the same, not a ton of distortion, lows around 4, mids around 5 or 6 highs around 6 or 7. trying to keep it kinda flat, then i go to the eq on the channel to make additional eq adjustments. and here is where I get confused. Should I make the eq adjustments in the amp sim or on the channel? I am recording hard rock, so what/how do i eq the guitar to "cut thru" a little bit? I feel like i get in this cycle of adjusting the amp sim and then adjusting the eq on the channel in the opposite fashion I just adjusted the amp sim... make sense?  I am also carving out (-3 to -5 db) around 600hz to make room for the vocals.
 
 
vocals - haven't done much to them other than shelving and compression, still need to learn about eqing the vocals.
 
Overall, I am panning almost every channel to a differrent position, trying to make space for everything.  Kick, Bass and Lead vocals are pretty much centered.  i am watching the master meter and trying not to peak over -3db. While also trying to keep it consitently around -6.  
 
I have noticed my mixes are getting much cleaner, but I am just not getting the clarity on the guitar and the bass.
 
Am I on the right track?
2013/03/06 13:15:04
jerrypettit
I have found the videos that this guy does worthwhile:  http://therecordingrevolution.com/

2013/03/06 14:51:04
TraceyStudios
Jerry, I have been doing this already, pretty mucn. Thanks!
2013/03/06 14:54:33
CJaysMusic

on the bass guitar, I am notching  -3db down for the kick drum low end, also notching out -12 db around 200 hz so the guitars blend better, adding a little bit to 1khz just to make the bass a bit more defined. I am making sure the bass is not "boomy" 

There is no set methods and set dB's to cut, boost or shelve. You do what ever it takes to get the best sound that you are going for. If that means cutting 20dB at 200hZ ,then thats what you need to do. 


So if it sounds good to you, then your on the right track. 


Each instrument in each song will need different effects and things done to it in order for each instrument to fit in the song. The same exact instrument will sound different when inserted into 2 different songs, so you just do what ever it takes to get your sound. 
This is also why you should not solo tracks when applying effects to them
2013/03/06 15:06:14
Danny Danzi
Tracey,
 
All the stuff you've mentioned....doesn't really tell us anything. I don't mean that facetiously. The problem is, all the stuff you're doing...no one can tell you if it's right or wrong until they hear the mix.

What you're cutting and boosting depends on the instrument being used. Don't just "cut or boost" something because you read so and so tells you it's a good rule of thumb. Remember, with books and vids...they are not working with YOUR recorded material. For someone to say "just take a notch out of 340 Hz" just because....is ludicrous if the sound doesn't have enough 340 Hz in it to present a problem, understand? The same with boosts on certain frequencies or "I auto high pass this" type advice. Each instrument needs to be tweaked for what it is, not what someone tells you.

So first and foremost, the tweaks you are making have to be right for the sounds. Next, do away with the graphs on every track. That is forcing you to mix what you see more than what you hear. Graphs are only good if you are having a problem with something and even there, sometimes they are misleading.

I'll tell ya Tracey, I've seen some horrible eq curves in my time on individual instruments as well as full mixes. Yet, the stuff sounded fantastic. Then I've seen beautiful eq curves that sounded horrendous. So it's best to really use your ears and try not to even look at those things unless there is a problem area that needs to be addressed. And even there, it's best to know what you are looking at.

Just because something spikes, doesn't mean it's too hot frequency wise, understand? That little peak may just hit one time due to a certain frequency transient that comes up in the mix. Right away, if you pull it down because the peak showed itself, you can pull something out that shouldn't be pulled out...see what I mean?

The same can be said for frequencies that are NOT as visible as you want them to be. Because something is low or basically non-existent on the graph doesn't mean it's not in the mix somewhere. Harmonic elements are everywhere...even if they aren't super visible at times. Graphs are misleading...they really are. And what's worse, just about everyone I know that isn't an advanced engineer, uses them on their tracks and solo's the track up while tweaking it. That's the worst thing you can do if by chance you are doing it that way.

One of these days when your done with your video lessons and all the reading....if you're still unhappy with your results, one of my vids will fix you right up. See, that's the problem with other lessons and books. They don't tell you what you're doing wrong because they don't have your song or your sounds. You don't learn this stuff sometimes until someone points it out to you and tells you what you did wrong as well as how to listen to something.

Anyway, just keep at it and maybe share some of your mixes in the songs forum so you can get some feedback on them. That's a good way to get smacked around. Some of the comments will be great, others may bash you into the ground. Consider the sources and try not to get too upset. Some mean well and are clueless. Others know what they are talking about and will help you quite a bit. There'll be a few that comment just to make you feel terrible too...but it goes with the territory. You'll get more help and advice than you will BS. Good luck.

-Danny
2013/03/06 15:21:01
Guitarpima
I've always gone with this method.

For each track, make sure the instrument sound the way you want it to sound regardless of how it sounds with other instruments. Hopefully this can be achieved in the tracking stage. It's always best to record the best possible signal.

Next eq the instruments so they blend well with other instruments. This is an art form all it's own. You can use graphs to guide you but never rely on them. Rely on your ears.

When in doubt, let your ears guide you.
2013/03/06 15:24:33
Guitarhacker
I do not approach mixing with any "set in stone" rules. I have discovered that while many songs are similar when it comes to mixing, there are sufficient differences that is is difficult to apply the same rules or techniques to the various mixes.

Having said that there are things I do from one mix to the next but mostly they are simply starting points. 

On drums I will use an EQ and a compressor in the track.

On Bass I will often do the same thing.

On guitars, it's mostly reverb and at times limiting and compression, but not always.

On vocals, EQ compression and reverb tend to be the starting points.....

see a pattern yet? 

I do not automatically apply any FX just because I have it. I add only what I think is needed and only if it improves the sound toward the end result I am seeking. 

In the master bus I tend to almost always use Ozone as a starting point from a custom preset I have saved. 

But always, I listen, and then I decide what I need. 

I do not think I have ever used any sort of spectrum analyzer to actually make decisions. Ozone has one built in and it's cool to watch it work but to use it to make a decision, not really. 

I often set there in my chair and close my eyes and simply listen.  
2013/03/06 18:02:28
TraceyStudios
Thanks guys. I am using the analyzer to identify freqs. I know some guys can hear something and just know what frequency it is. or example, I put it on the kick drums so I could identify the freq, then went to the bass guitar track, plugged in the freq and started moving it around while the whole mix was going to listen to where there was a good balance between the kick and the bass and both still be heard. pretty much the same on all tracks. I know there are no "set in stone rules" and each song is differrent. Maybe I don't know the right questions to ask.   I think I am still struggling with what does a good vocal sound like, for example.  I will use no eq and think it sound good, the next day I will eq a little and think it sounds good, a few days later use a bunch of eq and think it sounds good. then one day realize it doesn't sound good, so eliminate all of the eq and then it seems to sound good again.  yep..repeat crazyness on the rest of the tracks... I read an article today about losing perspective of the mix. I'm guilty!
2013/03/06 18:59:48
sharke
In his book Mixing Secrets, Mike Senior suggests listening to the part you want to EQ in the mix and first make a rough analysis like "which end of the frequency spectrum is standing out too much? The lows or the highs?" If the answer is immediately obvious, then you might be able to deal with this quickly by using a high or low shelf, rather than trying to notch out or boost frequencies with bell curves. Before I read this, I almost never used shelves and now I use them a lot. 

Also, it's sometimes better to use a shelf cut to boost frequencies. If you want to boost the low end up to 500Hz for example, it might be better to apply a high shelf cut from 500Hz onwards, and turn up the volume.

After you've gotten done with shelves and/or hi and lo pass filtering, then work on sweeping for problem frequencies or notching out frequencies to make room for other instruments etc. 

I know this doesn't answer your question really, but it might just be a useful approach to EQ for you, as it was for me. Shelves are very useful!
2013/03/06 19:04:12
TraceyStudios
@Sharke, actually that does help. Good tip with shelving and turning up.
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