Hi all... 

Here's the situation. I took a patch from my Boss DR-880, recorded the drum midi and applied a Superior Drummer synth of that. I recorded the bass from the DR-880 as Audio.  On top of that I have my guitar track that I've added.  So basically, drums, bass, guitar tracks.

I'm running Yamaha HS 50M monitors  http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/speakers/hs_series/hs50m/
I've gone through and mixed the everything, I've done my diligence on the EQ hi pass filtering, cutting some low frequencies in both the kick drum and bass guitar parts.  

What's happening is that the mix actually sounds good on the monitors, everything seems clean and has separation, however, when I save it out to a wave file and play it through my decent computer speakers ( Klipsch THX 4.1 quads )  it's really thick in the low end.  This has me wondering if my monitors are lying to me and should I be considering adding in the extra sub woofer that you can purchase for this set.  I'm wondering if these little 5" speakers just are not cutting it for getting a true representation of what's going on in the low end.

OR Do I still have some ear/listening training to do and that these will be fine.  I've also started to consider a decent set of monitor headphones. 

This also leads me to another question. From within Sonar, can I have two different output sources?  Meaning, one output source is my Octa-Capture, the other outsource is my computers sound card?  I'd like to be able to ( from the master buss ) switch between my octa and my sound card.  Would be nice to be able A/B without having to save the track, then load it up in something like Media Player.


Anyway, thanks all for the awesome help!!!

Hi redbarchetta
Could be a few things going on:

1. It just sounds shockingly different on your Klipsch. This is really possible...I know that I'm still always a bit surprised when I shift over to consumer speakers. OTOH, that's why you have them, right?

2. If the Klipsh speakers are in a different spot in the room than the nearfields, they could be interacting with the room differently and you could be getting some cancellation (particularly if you're in an untreated room). Only way to really solve this is to treat the room, although some folks on the forum swear by products like IKMM ARC (I'm not one of them, but to each their own). Problems like these are broadly referred to as problems with "mix portability". To find out if this is your problem, take a mix to another playback environment (car stereos are really common for this) and see if you continue to have problems in the low frequencies. If you do, you get to start down the giant rabbit hole that is room treatment and speaker calibration. A good place to start for that stuff is here: http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html. 

Re: multiple outputs, most folks I'm aware of do this by using a monitor management system rather than multiple output devices. If you're using ASIO, Sonar can use one and only one driver at any time. If you're using WDM you can have more than one driver active, but it's always been a bit clunky for me. Monitor managers let you have multiple speaker sets that you can switch in and out of. So, for example, my "A" monitors are a set of Focals and my "B" monitors are some Auratone grot boxes. I switch between them using buttons on my Presonus Central Station (which I kinda dislike, but it gets the job done for now).

Good luck
Dean

Get a set of near field monitors. I hear the Mackie's are good. Computer speakers, even Klipsch computer speakers, are not designed to give a flat response like monitors will. 

Hi Dean, 

The monitors sit directly above the klipsh satellites.  The Klipsch have a dedicated subwoofer.  And yes, I notice the same low frequency issues in my car with a nice stereo and sub.  Unfortunitly, I don't have many options for sound treatment in my room. This is not a dedicated recording room, rather a shared office space with my family. 

I fully understand the concepts of room treatment coming from the high end home theater hobby. The reality is, I'm going to have to work with what I have as far as room goes which is why I was hoping I might be able to learn how to adjust my mixing with the mindset of knowing I need to thin the low frequencies a bit and or a good set of headphones and or the accessory sub woofer you can buy that's made for my set of monitors. 

daveny5


Get a set of near field monitors. I hear the Mackie's are good. Computer speakers, even Klipsch computer speakers, are not designed to give a flat response like monitors will. 

I have a set, it's my yamahas.  I'm not monitoring with my Klipsh. Those are just my everyday computer speakers.  But I like to A/B using them.

RedB...you have a lot of very similar stuff I have...DR-880...I have HS 80M's (which I LOVE)...I'd like to have your GT-100, as I have an ME- 70...you seem to have a good thing going...stay at it...I will listen to what you have when I get home...

...and I'd like to eventually add the mayching sub that Yamaha makes for those monitors...I just can't swing the cash at the moment...an engagement ring is a little more important...at least to one person, anyways! LOL

1) You probably need to treat your room.

2) Your monitors may not be reproducing enough low end to hear it while you are mixing.

3) A sub may help, but it will still take lots of practice to be able to hear what a mix that will translate well sounds like in your mixing environment.

Regards,
Dan

Frostysnake


I'd like to have your GT-100

Yes, yes you do!  You want one of these toys. I had the GT10 prior. Loved it as well. You can spend hour after hour dinking around creating your tones.  It's an incredible unit!  

Hi,redbarchetta,

this bass mudness  happend very often with the yamahas and has imo 2 causes:
The yamaha ( HS 50m speaker are önly 5 " and so they don´t
build the exact  bass area .
Even my HS 80 m ( which I really like ) have a one flaw,
this is the bass area ( - ca. 200 Hz)
What I do to work arround this flaw is ,that I hear a reference mix of a very good 
mixed professionel song,and than mixing so long till my song sounds nearly or equal to this reference song.
All that on the Hs 80 m ,you know..........
If one makes this often,once you will find yourself in the situation not to need a reference mix any more.

Another idea is to buy better monitor´s,
but really better ones cost 1000 bucks and more,  
  the yamahas are imo in that price range a gift!.

Have fun
Pragi

I forget to mention that the reference song should be of the in same  
style then the song which has to be mixed!