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  • I made a mud pie (p.3)
2013/03/08 14:16:58
scook
I would not go crazy expensive with headphones. Audio-Technica ATH-M50 get recommended a lot here. AKG 240 mk II are a good choice too.
2013/03/08 14:44:01
sharke
You need a quality pair of headphones for the VRM box otherwise it defeats the whole purpose (Focusrite specifies that). By "quality," they mean something with as flat a frequency response as possible. Therefore Beats headphones (or any other cans with a colored response) are not so good. Think about it: if the purpose of the VRM box is to recreate the frequency response of various monitors and speakers, then its efforts are wasted if you're going to send those frequencies to something which colors the sound further. 

ATH M-50's are a great pair of cans for the price and are very highly rated in the audio world. 
2013/03/08 14:59:22
redbarchetta
Right, I figured I'd want "monitor" type headphones not "hi-fi" headphones.  That's why I've never tried to mix with my earbuds. They sound crazy good, but they are meant for listening to music, not mixing.
2013/03/08 15:05:13
sharke
redbarchetta


Right, I figured I'd want "monitor" type headphones not "hi-fi" headphones.  That's why I've never tried to mix with my earbuds. They sound crazy good, but they are meant for listening to music, not mixing.

Yeah it's so tempting to listen on cans that make everything sound great, I have a pair of Grado SR80i's that I use for composition and tracking and they make listening so pleasurable because the sound is so open, but I know if I try and mix on them I'm going to go too heavy on the bass. 
2013/03/08 15:08:17
Frostysnake
I have never mixed in the cans...might need to try it...
2013/03/08 15:08:51
slartabartfast
Several replies here suggest improving your listening environment or monitors as a solution to the problem. But it seems to me that this sort of misses the point.

Lets say you have a perfectly treated room and truly "linear" monitors and using your ears in that environment you produce an impeccable mix. Will you not have the same type of problem when you play that mix in an imperfect environment on speakers that are undoubtedly not linear? Many of the devices that listeners will be using are distorted by design to boost certain frequencies, and many have the potential for the listener to adjust an equalizer in ways that you cannot even imagine.

The advantage of a perfect mixing environment, if there is one, is that what you hear will be consistent and represent the actual frequencies in the mix. But to convert that mix to something you can play in the car without adjustment, you would need to either imagine or model how it will sound in that environment. The ability to pre-visualize (pre-herenize?) how it will sound is probably the major skill that professionals have to master. The best way to "model" various listening environments is to play the mix in those environments, where, as you have found, they frequently do not cut it. The VRM devices are a way to more conveniently do this, than trying to mix while riding down the freeway. 

In any case, it is difficult to imagine how a "perfect" mix could be moved to all listening transducers/environments/listeners with equally good results. Hence even cell phones typically have equalizers. Do not blame your reference monitors for the failings of the cheap stuff your music will actually be played on. But you will have to take into account the translation of your perfect mix into real world sound if you want to minimize this kind of problem.




2013/03/08 15:27:43
Paul P
I believe the role of accurate monitors is to enable you to hear clearly that you've attained the middle-of-the-road mix that'll do reasonably well on all systems.

This is not possible if you're not very used to your monitors or your room is so bad that it requires too much compensation to be done in your head.
2013/03/08 16:27:52
bandso
Roll off everythign under 40Hz on your master track with an eq. That should help cut some of the mud.
2013/03/08 16:52:02
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
Red,

Don't spend money on a sub unless you treat the room properly first (!)
 
Try to "learn" how your environment sounds. That's listening to reference tracks, reference tracks and more reference tracks.

As regards your own mixes, just keep on doing them until they get where you want them i.e. mix, listen to it in your car, your living room, ... make notes what you like and what you don't ... go back and adjust your mix ... listen in different places again ... do this a couple of times and your mix will improve a lot ... leave it for a few days to forget what it sounded like and listen with fresh ear ... go back and adjust somemore ... you'll eventually come to a mix you like and learned a lot along the way ...

2013/03/08 17:02:36
sharke
Frostysnake


I have never mixed in the cans...might need to try it...

I wouldn't recommend it as an exclusive method unless you really have to. I live in a building in which noise carries and the only time I have to mix is at night, so I have no choice. Also have to think about your ears - they can be damaged by long exposure to loud headphones. But since a huge proportion of music is consumed on headphones these days, I would say checking your mix on them is essential. I use my ATH M-50's and the VRM box but also check on a pair of iPhone buds every now and then too. 
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