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  • Which 64 bit version of Windows 7 do you recommend for X2 Producer? (p.4)
2013/03/01 08:39:15
hockeyjx
When the time comes to nuke and pave, I will use Win8 (and it will happen...in about a year   ) . But I just did a pretty sweet image with Win7 and it is tweaked and clean and don't want to spend the time re-doing at this point. 


John: I've heard no news about Win8 SP1
2013/03/01 08:43:14
John
I heard something about Windows Blue. I have no idea what it is but it is coming out perhaps as an update to Windows 8. At least its supposed to be a free update for Win 8 users.

We shall see.
2013/03/01 14:54:30
slartabartfast
Windows 8 is a multi tasking OS just as Windows 7 was.


Of course it is. It will run a bunch of applications that are more or less accessible at once. So could Windows 1. And for the record, Win8 pro 64 is what I use on my current DAW.

There is a difference between an operating system that will maintain multiple open programs, however and a human interface that is designed for the kind of work I am describing. Forget about metro--seriously. The Aero interface was relatively easy for the user (not the operating system), to manage multiple windows in multiple open programs. Classic view in Windows 8 is a step backward as far as my workflow is concerned.

Your fondness for defending your current OS (see a gazillion posts about the wonders of Vista), is fine. But your repeated implication that no one who offers criticism of the interface design has any experience with it, or is somehow prejudiced against it, is not consistent with the generally helpful and amiable tone of your posting history. In fact it is taking on the somewhat rancorous tone that I tend to employ.

I have literally used every version of MS DOS and Windows except Vista (no disrespect, I just did not find it useful to install a new OS during the Vista window of opportunity), and from a user interface standpoint they were not all equally compatible with my work style. Of course you can adapt your work to the interface you are offered, and of course you need to allow for the frustration of learning a new interface when critiquing something new. But the truth is, that the design decisions for the Windows 8 interface did not place keyboard based, multi-window user interaction at the forefront. That results in some trade offs that I do not personally consider to be improvements. It is possible to type on a virtual keyboard with a mouse, but that does not mean that I would consider such a virtual keyboard an advance in interface design for work that requires extensive writing. 

It is also not germane to the criticism of the design that you can sneak behind or kludge around the interface that is served up by adding third party "fixes." You can do this to some extent, or you can switch to Linux or or OSX or stick with Windows 7 until Microsoft retires it. That does not make the design of Windows 8 any less subject to criticism. I am not whining that I can not use Win 8, I am offering a critique, and some reasons why I am not installing it on every machine in sight. Before someone nukes their current OS, or makes a choice among several viable options, they may want to consider the points I raise.

[rancor]Windows 8 is certainly a usable OS. It is particularly well suited to users who need to be cognizant of every tweet or Facebook page modification, or who has an expensive touch sensitive tablet that follows them into the bathroom stall. I liked the Aero interface in Win 7, and I do resent the fact that Microsoft used its monopoly power to force the changes that will make selling its hardware easier onto the computing public at large. It would have been a trivial and inexpensive (divide the development and support cost by the revenue over the life of the product and round to the nearest cent and I expect it will be close to zero) task to make a more usable interface available as an option.[rancor]


2013/03/01 16:10:07
StepD
slartabartfast, I'm not sure I understand why you keep focusing on Metro in your critique of Windows 8 and multitasking. Who in their right mind would use Metro and those puny little apps to get any serious multitasking work done? You probably just need to quit looking at it. :-) I looked at it for about a day, and that was all I needed to see. The desktop, on the other hand, is the same great multitasking environment we've always had. Alt+Tab still works fine, and Aero Flip was really just a gimmick as far as I'm concerned.
2013/03/01 16:15:45
Beepster
Running fine on Win7 64 Pro here. It's gonna be supported until at least 2018. Manufacturers are more than likely going to continue writing drivers for it for a very long time as well just like they did with XP. Still too early to tell what's gonna happen with Win8.
2013/03/01 16:29:32
slartabartfast

slartabartfast, I'm not sure I understand why you keep focusing on Metro in your critique of Windows 8 and multitasking.



If you read the post it says "forget metro." Nothing I have said about the usability of the Windows 8 interface has anything to do with metro. I agree that Metro is not designed to make productive work easier. I do not use it at all. I am referring to the interface that is available "behind" Metro, sometime called the "classic" interface. I am saying that once you get past Metro, the changes made to the Win  8 interface compared to the Windows 7 Aero + start menu etc. do not improve on what they have replaced from my point of view. 

I also never used the "gesture"/mouse commands (ie shake etc.) in Windows 7 and I do not miss those at all. Those silly "timesavers" were the first shot at changing the interface to meet the demand of the brave new (lucrative) world of touch screens. Metro is the next step. god knows what Windows 9 will look like.



2013/03/01 17:35:10
StepD
Yeah, I agree that there aren't any earth-shattering improvements over Win7. Lots of nice little enhancements, though. But then Vista SP2 to Win7 wasn't really much of a change either.
2013/03/01 20:37:58
John
slartabartfast



Windows 8 is a multi tasking OS just as Windows 7 was.


Of course it is. It will run a bunch of applications that are more or less accessible at once. So could Windows 1. And for the record, Win8 pro 64 is what I use on my current DAW.

There is a difference between an operating system that will maintain multiple open programs, however and a human interface that is designed for the kind of work I am describing. Forget about metro--seriously. The Aero interface was relatively easy for the user (not the operating system), to manage multiple windows in multiple open programs. Classic view in Windows 8 is a step backward as far as my workflow is concerned.

Your fondness for defending your current OS (see a gazillion posts about the wonders of Vista), is fine. But your repeated implication that no one who offers criticism of the interface design has any experience with it, or is somehow prejudiced against it, is not consistent with the generally helpful and amiable tone of your posting history. In fact it is taking on the somewhat rancorous tone that I tend to employ.

I have literally used every version of MS DOS and Windows except Vista (no disrespect, I just did not find it useful to install a new OS during the Vista window of opportunity), and from a user interface standpoint they were not all equally compatible with my work style. Of course you can adapt your work to the interface you are offered, and of course you need to allow for the frustration of learning a new interface when critiquing something new. But the truth is, that the design decisions for the Windows 8 interface did not place keyboard based, multi-window user interaction at the forefront. That results in some trade offs that I do not personally consider to be improvements. It is possible to type on a virtual keyboard with a mouse, but that does not mean that I would consider such a virtual keyboard an advance in interface design for work that requires extensive writing. 

It is also not germane to the criticism of the design that you can sneak behind or kludge around the interface that is served up by adding third party "fixes." You can do this to some extent, or you can switch to Linux or or OSX or stick with Windows 7 until Microsoft retires it. That does not make the design of Windows 8 any less subject to criticism. I am not whining that I can not use Win 8, I am offering a critique, and some reasons why I am not installing it on every machine in sight. Before someone nukes their current OS, or makes a choice among several viable options, they may want to consider the points I raise.

[rancor]Windows 8 is certainly a usable OS. It is particularly well suited to users who need to be cognizant of every tweet or Facebook page modification, or who has an expensive touch sensitive tablet that follows them into the bathroom stall. I liked the Aero interface in Win 7, and I do resent the fact that Microsoft used its monopoly power to force the changes that will make selling its hardware easier onto the computing public at large. It would have been a trivial and inexpensive (divide the development and support cost by the revenue over the life of the product and round to the nearest cent and I expect it will be close to zero) task to make a more usable interface available as an option.[rancor]


  One comment about how you characterize my posts as rancorous after which I will try to answer your post. I'm not sure how you can read a post on this thread from me as being rancorous. At no time did I say anything that could be construed in that way. 

You speak of the "Aero interface", there was no such thing in either Vista or Win 7. It was a theme that used what was called Aero Glass allowing transparency in the window title bar and and could show loaded programs in a 3d cascade. In Win 8 the taskbar is has all the open programs showing a way that works as the 3d cascade did before.

Many have objected to the removal of Aero in Win 8 but the main reason to use Aero was for graphics acceleration not to provide a better multi tasking environment. Win 8 does do graphics acceleration but without the Aero Glass refined look.

I am still a little unsure what it is about Win 8 that you think hampers multi tasking. To me its simply Windows and works as it always has.  

       
2013/03/01 23:18:09
John
Tip: In Windows 8 use the windows key + a top number key to launch a program from the quick launch taskbar. It works in the order the programs are on the taskbar. 
2013/03/01 23:26:23
DW_Mike
Beepster


Running fine on Win7 64 Pro here. It's gonna be supported until at least 2018. Manufacturers are more than likely going to continue writing drivers for it for a very long time as well just like they did with XP. Still too early to tell what's gonna happen with Win8.

I agree.
Still using XP here on my web PC.
Have Windows 7 64 Pro on the DAW.


Windows 8 may be the bee's knees but I'm gonna wait it out a little longer.


I'm always a little timid of jumping into a new OS.
When I first bought this XP machine it was XP Pro 64 bit.
I had to finally roll back down to 32 bit after a few months. That kind of left a bad taste in my mouth about installing the cutting edge OS.


Glad I went back too because it sure took some company's quite a long time to jump aboard the 64 bit bandwagon.


W-8 isn't going anywhere. I'm sure it'll be there when I'm ready.


Mike  
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