Anybody here creating and recording songs using midi drums like superior drummer, BFD, or even Cakewalks built in drums?
 
Is it possible to get them real sounding? I always find the cymbals lacking.

In terms of sonic realism, the better sampled drums do just fine. In fact, very often when you hear what you think are "real" drums on commercial recordings you're actually hearing drum replacement.
 
As you've observed, though, cymbals are the weakest class of instruments in that regard. Some home recordists actually use physical cymbals layered over sampled drums for that reason. Just buying a hi-hat and playing it manually adds a great deal of realism to programmed drums.
 
Where realism suffers is not with the recorded sounds but rather with the performance. I am convinced that it's just not possible to program a MIDI drum track that sounds believable. At least, I've never been able to do it, and I've tried really hard.
 
Best solution, IMO, is a live drummer playing an electronic kit and recording it as MIDI rather than audio.

Cakewalk used to sell these extra programs a long time ago that "humanize" MIDI by moving the notes a bit (can't remember the names at the moment - I still have them somewhere).  Even the best drummer will still be a few milliseconds off but, where people tend to fail when they manually change notes, is that they do too much inconsistently.  A good drummer will usually be either a little too fast or slow but not both and will stay in a tight range like 2-5ms off.  I've found that having the notes a bit faster than the beat tends to make the song seem more energetic.  Obviously having them all hit right on time makes it sound like a machine.
 
Oh yeah, the other thing to vary (and this can vary significantly compared to timing) is the volume of each note.  It's much more difficult to hit every note with the same strength even if you were trying to.  
 
To get a good idea of the ranges for both, take Dave's idea and have a live drummer play an electronic kit while recording the MIDI.  Remember you can treat parts of the drum kit differently due to the note values so it's possible to add a little something something to just the cymbals if desired.

Mr. torture
Anybody here creating and recording songs using midi drums like superior drummer, BFD, or even Cakewalks built in drums?
 
Is it possible to get them real sounding? I always find the cymbals lacking.

Working with drums in Sonar has been pure pleasure for me. I love it! To get them real sounding you will have to spend time on them to get the sound you want. If you don't know what you want there are built in rhythm examples you can place in to experiment with to find the sound you're looking for. 
 
I use Sonar for guitar practice as well as writing and recording music. Each has it's specific use and requires a different set-up. My advice is to listen to some of the music presented in the forums. There is wonderful music of all kinds and you can listen and compare Etc. check EQ spacing and all that. Asking questions to the members will get you on the right path to make the kind of music you want and all the fun that goes with it. Here is a jazz tune I recorded and played myself using AD2 and my keyboard. I love the sound of cymbals and you can hear how I recorded them and placed them. IT works for me! Autumn  Leaves

Jamstix is the best way I've found of humanizing drums. Once you understand its quirky workflow and interface nothing gives you so much control over the groove, style and feel. Even if you just use it to humanize your own MIDI grooves the results are fantastic. It adds a dimension to the timing and dynamics of your drum parts which is all but impossible with PRV editing.

Not a fan of "humanization" algorithms because they totally miss the mark.
 
Yes, tightly-quantized rhythms sound robotic, and yes, humans do not play perfectly quantized. However, that does not mean that randomized timing will make it sound more human. This is because humans' timing variances are not random.
 

bitflipperHowever, that does not mean that randomized timing will make it sound more human. This is because humans' timing variances are not random.
 

well said and that`s the beauty of real drummers-they can get behind or ahead or just swing which allows so much latitude and when you all arrive back on the 1together is part of the magic of being a musician.
no offense to anyone and all practicalities aside with consideration to the hobbyists ,fake drums are just that-a bit like driving an automatic transmission(Drumagog) compared to a manual(DW Kit): we don`t always get a choice but.
 
I am only contributing to this thread because I had to turn away a client who insisted on fixed latency and auto align on his drums-advised him to go home and practise with a metronome.
enough said
cheers   

Yes, tightly-quantized rhythms sound robotic, and yes, humans do not play perfectly quantized. However, that does not mean that randomized timing will make it sound more human. This is because humans' timing variances are not random.
 
I've tried a lot of things to get a live player sound but I haven't found a better way than doing the drums myself. I know it's not the same but the right piece/rhythm/kick etc. at the right time is. I play everything now on 2 different  recording sessions. I do the kick and the snare( rim shot etc) then cymbals, and hihat. If I'm not too busy I may throw in a cowbell or something. If the part is more complicated I add to a separate session and part. It works for me.
That's the point Rich, do what works for you till you find a better way. 

webbs hill studio

bitflipperHowever, that does not mean that randomized timing will make it sound more human. This is because humans' timing variances are not random.
 

well said and that`s the beauty of real drummers-they can get behind or ahead or just swing which allows so much latitude and when you all arrive back on the 1together is part of the magic of being a musician.
no offense to anyone and all practicalities aside with consideration to the hobbyists ,fake drums are just that-a bit like driving an automatic transmission(Drumagog) compared to a manual(DW Kit): we don`t always get a choice but.
 
I am only contributing to this thread because I had to turn away a client who insisted on fixed latency and auto align on his drums-advised him to go home and practise with a metronome.
enough said
cheers   

Not much you can do with a musician that doesn't know their instrument. I've used feel variances in the tempo to to emphasize phrase. That kind of thing makes your sound different and my point of view, from experience, is if all the instruments do it together it will work. You can't go overboard either. I believe it's the subtleness of it that makes it work

hi bill-a fellow traveller-that`s how I record drums, just for my own stuff-one pass on kick,snare and hat then cymbals and toms on the next-but that`s because of my age-I just can`t get through 2 or 3 passes on the kit anymore before I run out of puff...... .
I also got pretty efficient on a Roland DR Rhythm where you can tap ,for example, kick and snare with your left and right index fingers then record the rest (which ties in with this thread-we call it tabledrumming)
importantly it does humanize the rthym as it is you`re own so technically you could be playing a cereal box then upscale via a vst to replace with Steve Slater or whatever and if necessary some subtle alignment with drumagog etc.
I guess what I am trying to say is that if you want to humanise the sound do it yourself-if you can`t keep time you need a different hobby-starting with "fake drums" is not necessary but it`s very convenient.
no offence intended.