Thanks for the Quiet Solutions recommendation -- I checked it out, and it's definitely food for thought. It looks like I'll be taking the place I mentioned and just trying to make the best of it.

ORIGINAL: CJaysMusic

Well, just hang some absortion on the walls and on the ceiling above your DAW, Hell even some thick Down comforters will do some good. Or maybee even some carpet on the walls.
CJ

None of that will solve his isolation problem. You could put carpet and blankets on every wall, floor, and ceiling, but it will not do anything for isolation. The high frequencies will diminish in that particular room, but that's about it.

Soundproofing can be hell. I've been working on my new rooms and even with double floated walls with multiple sheets of drywall and quiet rock, there is still some leakage. Isolation within a residence is hard to do and it is expensive.

quote:

Use your kitchen (interior room) and get a couple of furniture pads from Markertek and hang them up to cover the doorways.

Hello,

Sorry about that. Guess what? They don't call them furniture pads, they call them "sound absorption blankets. : :-) Here's the link: http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?off=0&sort=prod

GK

ORIGINAL: sscannon

ORIGINAL: CJaysMusic

Well, just hang some absortion on the walls and on the ceiling above your DAW, Hell even some thick Down comforters will do some good. Or maybee even some carpet on the walls.
CJ

None of that will solve his isolation problem. You could put carpet and blankets on every wall, floor, and ceiling, but it will not do anything for isolation. The high frequencies will diminish in that particular room, but that's about it.

Hello,

We're not talking about isolation from the outside world. We are talking about attenuating the level that is going TO the outside world (e.g., the neighbors). And "sound absorbtion blankets" (furniture pads) will certainly attenuate the level. And blankets most certainly do absorb bass because blankets are not rigid so they don't pass the energy through. Like I said the hope is to attenuate not eliminate. My suggestion is to take a positive approach, which is to try something and see if it works. You haven't offered a solution, only a negative statement. Remember the OP is talking about a saxophone, not a 4 piece heavy metal group playing flat out.

GK

Hi Nick--

I commute past that complex a lot. Very pretty! I feel your pain on the cost of living. As I see it, you have two options that would work. 1) take a look at craigslist. There are a couple whisper rooms up for sale, or have been lately. Around $2k and under, IIRC. There's also a guy in Santa Rosa that advertises on CL his "soundbooths unlimited" products, at about $500. They look like acoustic foam and acoustic blankets adhered to the plastic that anvil cases are covered in, then all hung from tubing. I have no experience with them, but they might work.

Option 2 is to take a look at Soundwave Studios...they have a rehearsal complex off Grand Ave/880, just a few miles to your building. Not the best option, but you should be able to pick up a roomshare for around $200-300 that might work for you. Again, craigslist.org under the 'musicians' section is going to be your best option for getting into SW on the cheap. No fun to commute to practice, but hey, the neighbors ain't gonna complain.

Option 2.5: if you don't need to be in that complex, take a look at Alameda, it's got a lot houses with cottages in the back yards, is very safe, good public transit to SF, not terribly expensive.

ORIGINAL: nick8004

Don't they make something you can stuff in the bell of the horn so it's quieter? I'd try that before soundproofing. Also, the midi wind controllers might be a possibility if practicing on them will translate to usable technique on a real sax. Or buy a van and then drive somewhere and practice in the van.

I usually stuff a cloth in the bell to muffle it, but that only goes so far. Unlike, say, a trumpet, the sound emanates from all over the sax, not just the bell. And when I record, of course, I can't do this.

I bought the Akai EWI wind controller earlier this year partly for the reason you state: so I have something to play that doesn't make noise (when I use headphones) and I can practice anywhere. Plus, I think it's cool. The actual playing technique is much different than the sax, so I don't feel there's much of a benefit there. But I suppose that whatever happens mentally (i.e., new harmonic concepts) transfers over.

I like your van idea. :-) Actually, the apartment is right on the bay, so I could probably go somewhere outside that's secluded and play. I may be able to find a church, or a business, that will let me use their space in the evening for little or no fee. This would not be ideal, since I use my computer for various things in my practice sessions, but it's better than nothing. And I still need to record at home. No sense in having this terrific software if you can't use it, right?

This may be what they were thinking about:

http://yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D30739%252526CTID%25253D551151,00.html

It's made for brass instruments, so it's not a perfect fit. And the sound of the sax is coming from the whole instrument, form the mouthpiece all the way to the bell, right? Man, if only they could figure out a way to both silence the sax and pick up its sound properly too. Then they'd really have something! Seems like it would take something like a pillow-cover over the whole sax, but that allows access for your arms. Heck, maybe just make a small tent out of those Markertek soundproofing blankets. But it might take several layers... Anyway, just some random thoughts.

ORIGINAL: Geokauf

We're not talking about isolation from the outside world. We are talking about attenuating the level that is going TO the outside world (e.g., the neighbors). And "sound absorbtion blankets" (furniture pads) will certainly attenuate the level. And blankets most certainly do absorb bass because blankets are not rigid so they don't pass the energy through. Like I said the hope is to attenuate not eliminate. My suggestion is to take a positive approach, which is to try something and see if it works. You haven't offered a solution, only a negative statement. Remember the OP is talking about a saxophone, not a 4 piece heavy metal group playing flat out.

GK

GK, I wasn't responding to you, and I wasn't trying to be negative. It just won't work, no matter how nicely I say it. Blankets will not keep the sound in. As an example, put a blanket on your kid's bedroom door, then step in the hall and play that sax. You'll still wake up the kid. The blankets will have a small value of isolation, but will absorb high frequency content. They will absorb minimal bass content, as well, very little. Try it, and report back. Rigid or not, a blanket is not a good isolator of bass frequencies. A sax is pretty loud, even though it is not a full-on metal band, and in his situation of close proximity to neighbors, blankets and carpet will not be enough.

As far as positive solutions, they have been discussed. Build a small booth you can stand in while playing. Sound proof a room if you own the structure, etc. etc. It is tough and pricey. Maybe try recording when everyone is off to work? Ask them if they mind you playing for an hour or so? Get an MIDI wind instrument and use headphones?

I agree - ain't gonna happen. This subject was discussed quite extensively (in the Gear forum ?) a couple of months ago.

Assuming limited funds & a friendly regard for neighbours (why would you want to p1ss them off ?), the OP's options are limited to finding an appropriately designed & located flat.

ORIGINAL: sscannon

ORIGINAL: Geokauf

We're not talking about isolation from the outside world. We are talking about attenuating the level that is going TO the outside world (e.g., the neighbors). And "sound absorbtion blankets" (furniture pads) will certainly attenuate the level. And blankets most certainly do absorb bass because blankets are not rigid so they don't pass the energy through. Like I said the hope is to attenuate not eliminate. My suggestion is to take a positive approach, which is to try something and see if it works. You haven't offered a solution, only a negative statement. Remember the OP is talking about a saxophone, not a 4 piece heavy metal group playing flat out.

GK

GK, I wasn't responding to you, and I wasn't trying to be negative. It just won't work, no matter how nicely I say it. Blankets will not keep the sound in. As an example, put a blanket on your kid's bedroom door, then step in the hall and play that sax. You'll still wake up the kid. The blankets will have a small value of isolation, but will absorb high frequency content. They will absorb minimal bass content, as well, very little. Try it, and report back. Rigid or not, a blanket is not a good isolator of bass frequencies. A sax is pretty loud, even though it is not a full-on metal band, and in his situation of close proximity to neighbors, blankets and carpet will not be enough.

As far as positive solutions, they have been discussed. Build a small booth you can stand in while playing. Sound proof a room if you own the structure, etc. etc. It is tough and pricey. Maybe try recording when everyone is off to work? Ask them if they mind you playing for an hour or so? Get an MIDI wind instrument and use headphones?

Hello again,

(Takes a long slow inhale, then exhales with a long sigh of exasperation). This is a problem solving exercise. Let's work backwards.

1. "Build a small booth..." OK and he lives in a 3 bedroom flat. So where does this "small" (and it won't be as small as you think) booth going to be stored when it is not in use? In the corner of the living room next to the telly?
2. "Sound proof a room, if you own the structure..." He's renting a flat.
3. "Get a MIDI wind instrument..." You don't play horn or you wouldn't suggest it.
4. The "blanket on your kid's bedroom door..." Not talking about isolating one room in a house or flat from another in the same flat. Not talking about isolating this flat from an adjoining unit or one on the floor above or below. I am talking about attenuating (that means lowering) the sound level that gets out through the windows and therefore reaches the neighbors windows.
5. The simplest solution (since he has no room for a booth - unless you like an unsightly wood structure taking up a significant amount of your living space) and he doesn't own the property (so he won't be building cinder block walls), considerating that a "sound absorbtion blanket" is only $18.00 and that the best place to play for isolation is the interior room with the entrance way (or ways) covered with a sound absorbtion blanket so that you decouple your sound from the outside world BEST AS IS POSSIBLE. My result in a few dBs of attenuation and that might be enough to keep the annoyance factor for the neighbors down to reasonable. (NOTE: the Markertek blankets are considerably more dense and heavier than the duvet on your bed, especially if doubled over.

Try it and report back to me.

GK